Wow, really?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Meh, I remain ever annoyed by people on all sides who don't realize, the parameters of freedom & censorship are blured by thugs.  Their point becomes supported by the threatened.  

Personally, I blame David Mabus/Dennis Markuze who, once upon a time, threatened to cut off my head.  

He didn't.    

lol, you haven't moderated an atheist or freethought forum until you got the endless procession of Depeche Mode videos followed by a threat or ten, and then five or six socks.

He's back in business, from what I've read.

He's going to end up incarcerated, again. 

He will. From what I've read, he's already violated his parole conditions.

[Minimalist]

Not explained.  You 'explanation' was a little muddled.

When someone who is otherwise nice to you say "please don't do X, I'm not comfortable with it" and you procede to do X anyway. That makes you an asshole in that specific situation. Don't overstep the boundaries of the people who are otherwise nice to you when they ask you nicely.

Since when do mobs ask nicely?

[Minimalist]

Meh, I remain ever annoyed by people on all sides who don't realize, the parameters of freedom & censorship are blured by thugs.  Their point becomes supported by the threatened.  

Personally, I blame David Mabus/Dennis Markuze who, once upon a time, threatened to cut off my head.  

He didn't.    

lol, you haven't moderated an atheist or freethought forum until you got the endless procession of Depeche Mode videos followed by a threat or ten, and then five or six socks.

He's back in business, from what I've read.

He's going to end up incarcerated, again. 

Best thing that could happen to him.

[epronovost]

Not explained.  You 'explanation' was a little muddled.

When someone who is otherwise nice to you say "please don't do X, I'm not comfortable with it" and you procede to do X anyway. That makes you an asshole in that specific situation. Don't overstep the boundaries of the people who are otherwise nice to you when they ask you nicely.

Since when do mobs ask nicely?

I'm not sure the admin staff of the forum constitute "a mob". You would not refrain from posting caricature of Muhammad in the current climate for the sake of muslim integrist in Europe, but for the staff of the forum that asked you for it.

[Minimalist]

But they are only asking because of the mob mentality of muslims.

You don't see them making similar demands against xtians or jews, do you?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I just want to put it out there that there have been cartoons of mohamed posted in the laugh at religion thread since the beginning. Like the Jesus talking with mohamed cartoon that pops in there from time to time.

https://www.jesusandmo.net/

[Aliza]

I just want to put it out there that there have been cartoons of mohamed posted in the laugh at religion thread since the beginning. Like the Jesus talking with mohamed cartoon that pops in there from time to time.

https://www.jesusandmo.net/

https://www.jesusandmo.net/about/

[TheGentlemanBastard]

Since no one was interested in answering the first time...

@Dom @Aliza @Mathilda
Will criticizing Islam in general now be taboo?

And further:
Will the taboo only apply to thread titles?
Will the taboo apply to all cartoons of pedo-mo?
Will referring to the prophet Muhammad (piss be upon him) as pedo-mo be taboo?
Will the taboo require us to only speak of Islam in the kindest manner and to portray it only in the rosiest of lights? Because that's where capitulation and appeasement will lead with these iron age assholes.

Just how far will the infringement on free-speech, which you have all claimed to value, be pushed? Perhaps, as has been suggested, this needs to be codified into a rule, so that we'll actually know what opinions we'll be allowed to express and which opinions will get us banned.

[Dom]

Since no one was interested in answering the first time...

@Dom @Aliza @Mathilda
Will criticizing Islam in general now be taboo?

And further:
Will the taboo only apply to thread titles?
Will the taboo apply to all cartoons of pedo-mo?
Will referring to the prophet Muhammad (piss be upon him) as pedo-mo be taboo?
Will the taboo require us to only speak of Islam in the kindest manner and to portray it only in the rosiest of lights? Because that's where capitulation and appeasement will lead with these iron age assholes.

Just how far will the infringement on free-speech, which you have all claimed to value, be pushed? Perhaps, as has been suggested, this needs to be codified into a rule, so that we'll actually know what opinions we'll be allowed to express and which opinions will get us banned.

It's not about re-posting cartoons, it about creating drawings. Cartoons are all over the world by the billions, and no one will go after them. A thread title asking people to draw him will attract crazies.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

Since no one was interested in answering the first time...

@Dom @Aliza @Mathilda
Will criticizing Islam in general now be taboo?

And further:
Will the taboo only apply to thread titles?
Will the taboo apply to all cartoons of pedo-mo?
Will referring to the prophet Muhammad (piss be upon him) as pedo-mo be taboo?
Will the taboo require us to only speak of Islam in the kindest manner and to portray it only in the rosiest of lights? Because that's where capitulation and appeasement will lead with these iron age assholes.

Just how far will the infringement on free-speech, which you have all claimed to value, be pushed? Perhaps, as has been suggested, this needs to be codified into a rule, so that we'll actually know what opinions we'll be allowed to express and which opinions will get us banned.

It's not about re-posting cartoons, it about creating drawings. Cartoons are all over the world by the billions, and no one will go after them. A thread title asking people to draw him will attract crazies.

So, a "Post your pedo-mo cartoons that someone else drew" thread would be ok, but not a "Draw a cartoon of pedo-mo and post it here" thread? I fail to see a difference since either one can piss off a bunch of thin-skinned, iron-age assholes. If we're going to capitulate and appease, we need to know the hard limits.

[Dom]

Since no one was interested in answering the first time...

@Dom @Aliza @Mathilda
Will criticizing Islam in general now be taboo?

And further:
Will the taboo only apply to thread titles?
Will the taboo apply to all cartoons of pedo-mo?
Will referring to the prophet Muhammad (piss be upon him) as pedo-mo be taboo?
Will the taboo require us to only speak of Islam in the kindest manner and to portray it only in the rosiest of lights? Because that's where capitulation and appeasement will lead with these iron age assholes.

Just how far will the infringement on free-speech, which you have all claimed to value, be pushed? Perhaps, as has been suggested, this needs to be codified into a rule, so that we'll actually know what opinions we'll be allowed to express and which opinions will get us banned.

It's not about re-posting cartoons, it about creating drawings. Cartoons are all over the world by the billions, and no one will go after them. A thread title asking people to draw him will attract crazies.

So, a "Post your pedo-mo cartoons that someone else drew" thread would be ok, but not a "Draw a cartoon of pedo-mo and post it here" thread? I fail to see a difference since either one can piss off a bunch of thin-skinned, iron-age assholes. If we're going to capitulate and appease, we need to know the hard limits.

The people who are dead drew images. Apparently that is punishable by murder.

[jerry mcmasters]

I for one demand to know when and where Dom's iron-fisted censorship of my Rights will end.  Today, this merely seems like a reasonable, practical, and limited prohibition of our Natural Rights.  But obviously it is only a forerunner to her true plan to strip of us of not only our Mohammed-drawing quills, but our Jesus, Buddha, and Kurt Cobain-drawing quills, fuck, probably every other goddamn quill we own too.  Well, I for one will not march peacefully into the quill-less gulags that no doubt await.  I for one will hold up my quill and say "Dom!  You want my quill you will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!"  And then she will loose that big-ass fucking dog of hers on me and I will be like "Dom!  Sorry!  Take the fucking quill!"

[Dom]

I for one demand to know when and where Dom's iron-fisted censorship of my Rights will end.  Today, this merely seems like a reasonable, practical, and limited prohibition of our Natural Rights.  But obviously it is only a forerunner to her true plan to strip of us of not only our Mohammed-drawing quills, but our Jesus, Buddha, and Kurt Cobain-drawing quills, fuck, probably every other goddamn quill we own too.  Well, I for one will not march peacefully into the quill-less gulags that no doubt await.  I for one will hold up my quill and say "Dom!  You want my quill you will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!"  And then she will loose that big-ass fucking dog of hers on me and I will be like "Dom!  Sorry!  Take the fucking quill!"

That's the plan. Complete DOMination. 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think asking for transparency and a clear delineation of limits is perfectly appropriate, all slippery-slope BS aside.

It's not about "rights" at all, and neither TGB nor I are asserting that. All I'm asking, and I think @TheGentlemanBastard would agree, is that it be clearly delineated, in writing, what will get a post or thread nuked. If this is going to be a policy, it needs to be explicated.

I'm not interested in posting that stuff myself, and never have been. But I think if the staff is going to make decisions like this, they should be able to cite clear verbiage in our rules here to support their decision. It's not that difficult; define what you don't want to see posted, and add a clause to the rules here regarding that.

Is that really such a big ask?

[Mathilda]

Since no one was interested in answering the first time...

@Dom @Aliza @Mathilda
Will criticizing Islam in general now be taboo?

And further:
Will the taboo only apply to thread titles?
Will the taboo apply to all cartoons of pedo-mo?
Will referring to the prophet Muhammad (piss be upon him) as pedo-mo be taboo?
Will the taboo require us to only speak of Islam in the kindest manner and to portray it only in the rosiest of lights? Because that's where capitulation and appeasement will lead with these iron age assholes.

Just how far will the infringement on free-speech, which you have all claimed to value, be pushed? Perhaps, as has been suggested, this needs to be codified into a rule, so that we'll actually know what opinions we'll be allowed to express and which opinions will get us banned.

It's not about re-posting cartoons, it about creating drawings. Cartoons are all over the world by the billions, and no one will go after them. A thread title asking people to draw him will attract crazies.

So, a "Post your pedo-mo cartoons that someone else drew" thread would be ok, but not a "Draw a cartoon of pedo-mo and post it here" thread? I fail to see a difference since either one can piss off a bunch of thin-skinned, iron-age assholes. If we're going to capitulate and appease, we need to know the hard limits.

Stop trying to fuck up a perfectly good community. I have absolutely zero patience for those who whine about freeze peach as if it's some universal unquestionable moral code when in reality free speech does not mean that you are free from the consequences of what you say. Privileged and entitled people whining about free speech are generally using it as an excuse to spread hate against others and to bully them without consequences to themselves.

This community is intended as a welcoming space for everyone, regardless of who they are.

We have already lost members over this manufactured controversy and I have little patience to play these silly games. I know that this forum is a major target for the far right as they have done on other forums and have tried here in the past. I am not going to let this place become a recruiting ground for bigotry and hate. And no I'm not going to be drawn into debate on this.

You can have free speech on the internet when you pay the hosting costs. Free speech is part of the American constitution, not in the terms of our website.

The forum is moderated but free speech, with a couple of exceptions as noted below, is valued

11) Hate speech
Posts promoting racism, terrorism, genocide, holocaust denial, or other forms of hate speech are not permitted.  Posts discussing these topics are allowed but members wishing to advocate such positions will be shown the door.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

It's not about re-posting cartoons, it about creating drawings. Cartoons are all over the world by the billions, and no one will go after them. A thread title asking people to draw him will attract crazies.

So, a "Post your pedo-mo cartoons that someone else drew" thread would be ok, but not a "Draw a cartoon of pedo-mo and post it here" thread? I fail to see a difference since either one can piss off a bunch of thin-skinned, iron-age assholes. If we're going to capitulate and appease, we need to know the hard limits.

Stop trying to fuck up a perfectly good community. I have absolutely zero patience for those who whine about freeze peach as if it's some universal unquestionable moral code when in reality free speech does not mean that you are free from the consequences of what you say. Privileged and entitled people whining about free speech are generally using it as an excuse to spread hate against others and to bully them without consequences to themselves.

This community is intended as a welcoming space for everyone, regardless of who they are.

We have already lost members over this manufactured controversy and I have little patience to play these silly games. I know that this forum is a major target for the far right as they have done on other forums and have tried here in the past. I am not going to let this place become a recruiting ground for bigotry and hate. And no I'm not going to be drawn into debate on this.

You can have free speech on the internet when you pay the hosting costs. Free speech is part of the American constitution, not in the terms of our website.

The forum is moderated but free speech, with a couple of exceptions as noted below, is valued

11) Hate speech
Posts promoting racism, terrorism, genocide, holocaust denial, or other forms of hate speech are not permitted.  Posts discussing these topics are allowed but members wishing to advocate such positions will be shown the door.

I asked for clear delineation of the ruling. You want to play domineering authoritarian, well, you do you.

[Dom]

Well, I see a different rule apply, where one is not supposed to make posts that threaten others. In this case it threatens someone's life, albeit indirectly. 

Can we please all agree to post home made drawings of mohmed some place where they don't attract fanatics to someone's home? 

Let's call this quits. There is no point to this, do we want to lose a forum over this? I think not, we worked hard to get it going and keep it going.

[jerry mcmasters]

Take the temperature of the room, geez. Ix-nay on drawing the Artoons-Cay. Nobody's saying you have to go out and buy a prayer mat and pray towards Mecca five times a day.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The forum is moderated but free speech, with a couple of exceptions as noted below, is valued

11) Hate speech
Posts promoting racism, terrorism, genocide, holocaust denial, or other forms of hate speech are not permitted.  Posts discussing these topics are allowed but members wishing to advocate such positions will be shown the door.

Religious cartoons aren't necessarily "hate speech". They can be social comment or satire as well. Draw the lines in your rules. You own the place. Be transparent, that's what is being asked here. Would you tolerate Jesus cartoons?

[Dom]

The forum is moderated but free speech, with a couple of exceptions as noted below, is valued

11) Hate speech
Posts promoting racism, terrorism, genocide, holocaust denial, or other forms of hate speech are not permitted.  Posts discussing these topics are allowed but members wishing to advocate such positions will be shown the door.

Religious cartoons aren't necessarily "hate speech". They can be social comment or satire as well. Draw the lines in your rules. You own the place. Be transparent, that's what is being asked here. Would you tolerate Jesus cartoons?

I don't know how often I need to repeat myself. Cartoons and comments are not the issue here, it's making a thread title asking people to draw. That will be broadcast world wide by the search engines and can attract malevolent people, who won't be able to go after the poster, but the people who have their name connected to the forum. That is what it is about. 

I hope I don't have to explain that again. Well, I won't, it's starting to get dark outside again and I will be out for the day.

[Aliza]

The forum is moderated but free speech, with a couple of exceptions as noted below, is valued

11) Hate speech
Posts promoting racism, terrorism, genocide, holocaust denial, or other forms of hate speech are not permitted.  Posts discussing these topics are allowed but members wishing to advocate such positions will be shown the door.

Religious cartoons aren't necessarily "hate speech". They can be social comment or satire as well. Draw the lines in your rules. You own the place. Be transparent, that's what is being asked here. Would you tolerate Jesus cartoons?

This particular kind of drawing has been known to promote terrorism.

[brewerb]

Hate speech? I didn't see that thread as hate speech. 

I saw it as potentially dangerous activity and was willing to quit and comply for the safety of others. I didn't see my safety as an issue.

If the issue is the thread title then say it's the thread title and be done with it. But now hate speech has been raised and that is not setting well with me.

If not complying with a religions mandate is going to be considered hate speech I'll need to contemplate my continued time here.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't know how often I need to repeat myself. Cartoons and comments are not the issue here, it's making a thread title asking people to draw. That will be broadcast world wide by the search engines and can attract malevolent people, who won't be able to go after the poster, but the people who have their name connected to the forum. That is what it is about. 

I hope I don't have to explain that again. Well, I won't, it's starting to get dark outside again and I will be out for the day.

Fair point. Put it in the rules.

This particular kind of drawing has been known to promote terrorism.

Then make it explicit, so that valued members don't fall afoul of this concern.

Whatever you guys decide are the rules, just be clear about them.

[Chas]

When someone who is otherwise nice to you say "please don't do X, I'm not comfortable with it" and you procede to do X anyway. That makes you an asshole in that specific situation. Don't overstep the boundaries of the people who are otherwise nice to you when they ask you nicely.

I'm sorry, but I am missing something here.  I don't understand this response or the prior one.

Dom just made two post explaning why she deleated a thread about Muhammad caricatures and asked members of the forum not to post such things for the time being due to concern over the safety of the admin staff. You then proceded to do the exact opposite and post a new bunch of caricatures about Muhammad. That led Jerry to call such an action rather selfish since you were told "please don't do X, I'm not comfortable with it" and you did X anyway. Did you saw Dom's posts?

No, hence my question.

[epronovost]

I'm sorry, but I am missing something here.  I don't understand this response or the prior one.

Dom just made two post explaning why she deleated a thread about Muhammad caricatures and asked members of the forum not to post such things for the time being due to concern over the safety of the admin staff. You then proceded to do the exact opposite and post a new bunch of caricatures about Muhammad. That led Jerry to call such an action rather selfish since you were told "please don't do X, I'm not comfortable with it" and you did X anyway. Did you saw Dom's posts?

No, hence my question.

Well this explains that. Sorry if I appeared like I was jumping at your throat btw, not my intention.