Welcome to Atheist Discussion, a new community created by former members of The Thinking Atheist forum.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
#1

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
You can go to her Twitter/X page and scroll down to where she has a picture of herself and the title under her face says, "Why I Am Now A Christian. "

I cant get a damned link to work so you'll have to go there. 

It is an appeal to tradition claiming that the west needs Christianity to defend against Islam and uses the same old tired trope of all authoritarian states are atheist, and that is also false. Below is my rebuttal. 

It is often argued that all dictators are atheists, and that is flat out not true. It is also argued that authoritarian states are all atheist populations, and that is also not true.

Hitler was not an atheist, he was his own brand of Catholic/occult/deist. His book Mien Kompf mention's God several times. The Nazi belt buckles read , "Gott min uns" or "God is with us". And there are plenty of pictures of Hitler smiling with the Clergy who were on his side. His biggest religious influence was the medieval priest Martin Luther who was a huge antisemite. Cuba is a Catholic majority.

Now while Stalin was an atheist, he still had to garner the support of the Russian Orthodox Christian majority to rise to power, and again when he new he had to fight Hitler. And Mussolini also ruled over a Catholic majority country.

And as far as Asian leaders like Mao and Po Pot they ruled over Taoist/Buddhists and other local folk ancestor religions.
Christianity was spread throughout Europe by sword. It spawned the dark ages, inquisitions and witch hunts. Christians forced slaves to America and anyone claiming the Civil War was not fought over slavery should look up on YouTube the full "Cornerstone Speech" written by Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stevens in which he said the war was about slavery and that blacks were the inferior race and should accept God's order. Native Americans were murdered and their land stolen because of the concept of "Manifest Destany" which is the Christian idea that God entitled them to take the land. In Mexico, and Central and South America Spaniards and Latin European countries killed of and displaced the indigenous natives too with the Conquistadors.

And in modern times their were American Nazis in pre, during and post WW2 that lived in America and supported Hitler. There was a Nazi rally held at Madison Square Garden in 1939 on the eve of WW2. Now while Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian, White Christians didn't like him and they murdered him because white Christians thought they were the superior race. Same with the KKK.

Now we see White Christian Nationalism and Neo Nazism rising because of the dog whistle support by Trump, who may or may not believe in a God, but that is besides the point because the MAGA republicans do. And on top of that MAGA republicans are anti science, anti education, anti minority anti anti democracy. And the MAGA Christian right took female body autonomy away from them.

Religion has no magic power to keep society pluralistic. Theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia and groups like the Taliban are proof of religious tyranny. Ayaan is not wrong in saying that Islam is used for political violence. But if one were to suddenly strip America of it's secular concept of Jefferson's wall and took out "no religious test" in the Constitution America would quickly turn into the a religious authoritarian state as well.
Atheism doesn't protect pluralism, nor does theism. The only thing that protects pluralism is secularism. Secularism does not mean "atheist only", "secular" means neutral, picking no favorites, setting up no social pecking order, it means equality.

Ayaan even said herself in that article, she is new to Christianity and has a lot to learn about it. That indicates to me she simply fell for someone being nice to her and painting a pretty picture for her.
 Check out my atheist poetry here... https://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/31771 I also go by "RationalPoet"@brianrrs37 on Twitter and "Brian James" Rational Poet on FB. 
Reply
#2

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 12:03 PM)Brian37 Wrote: That indicates to me she simply fell for someone being nice to her and painting a pretty picture for her.
She's worked at two notorious right wing think tanks. Of course she is a Christian!
Reply
#3

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 06:53 PM)rocinantexyz Wrote:
(11-16-2023, 12:03 PM)Brian37 Wrote: That indicates to me she simply fell for someone being nice to her and painting a pretty picture for her.
She's worked at two notorious right wing think tanks. Of course she is a Christian!

Now yes. But it is false to assume that atheists cant be Republicans or don't vote Republican. I went to the motherload atheist convention in 07 that had Dawkins Dennett Harris and Hitchens, and she was there too. She was not pretending to be an Atheist. I believed her back then and I believe her now if she says she was an atheist. 

Having said that though, I would still argue that she wasn't as skeptical or vigilant in her questioning Christianity's history like she was in being very thorough in Islam, Sharia Law and the Hadiths. Christianity was once as barbaric as Islam and has always had pockets of barbarism, again, see my rebuttal to her article. I think she doesn't understand how close America is in falling into Christian authoritarianism like Nazi Germany was. It is myth that Germany was an atheist country under Hitler. Again for reason I stated in my rebuttal above. 

I think she did what a lot of people do when leaving one label for another, the look at behaviors and either leave because they don't like what they see in their label, or they fall for a sales pitch. She fell for a sales pitch. 

I also think my younger sister did that too. She was a Baptist when I met her as an adult, we were both adopted out as kids to separate parents. She said the reason she left was because the Church didn't do shit for her when they were behind on their bills and ended up getting kicked out of their house. 

Bad stuff or good stuff happening to anyone is not proof of a God, and when you read Ayaan's logic in her article she is saying bad shit is going to happen because of Islam if we don't accept Christianity. That is complete nonsense. Bad shit will happen because bad shit happens. Ultimately our species will go extinct anyway. 

I am not saying we shouldn't stand up to Islamic terrorism. I am merely saying that a God doesn't have anything to do with what humans do to each other.
 Check out my atheist poetry here... https://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/31771 I also go by "RationalPoet"@brianrrs37 on Twitter and "Brian James" Rational Poet on FB. 
Reply
#4

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 07:15 PM)Brian37 Wrote: I went to the motherload atheist convention in 07 that had Dawkins Dennett Harris and Hitchens, and she was there too. She was not pretending to be an Atheist. I believed her back then and I believe her now if she says she was an atheist.
I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth.
Reply
#5

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
Ayaan Hisri Ali wrote one good book and then became a full time islamophobe and thus spent more and more time with right-wing nuts and basically lost her credibility. She's a good cautionary tale about hating more the things you hate than loving the things you love.
The following 4 users Like epronovost's post:
  • rocinantexyz, pattylt, Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#6

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 08:29 PM)epronovost Wrote: Ayaan Hisri Ali wrote one good book and then became a full time islamophobe and thus spent more and more time with right-wing nuts and basically lost her credibility. She's a good cautionary tale about hating more the things you hate than loving the things you love.

I think this is not only true, it explains a lot of right wing thinking.  We humans are a not so perfect balance of emotion and reason.  Emotions “feel” stronger than reason and when fear or hatred trigger our emotions, religion gains a foothold.  The old line that we feel our way into religion and think our way out of it is true…but it’s also really damn hard to do once you’ve succumbed to those emotions.

If you get out of a religion due to emotional reasons, you can easily fall into another.  If one never rationalized their way out, they’ll just jump one ship for another.  It’s why fear works so well on the right.
The following 3 users Like pattylt's post:
  • Cranky, Rhythmcs, Inkubus
Reply
#7

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
So she moved from the frying pan to the fire.

Clever!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
The following 1 user Likes Minimalist's post:
  • pattylt
Reply
#8

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 06:53 PM)rocinantexyz Wrote:
(11-16-2023, 12:03 PM)Brian37 Wrote: That indicates to me she simply fell for someone being nice to her and painting a pretty picture for her.
She's worked at two notorious right wing think tanks. Of course she is a Christian!

Most of the people who work at those things aren't christian so much as christianist - they're products of higher education and privilege.  Which is to say that if you read what they write they don't believe in ghosts but they believe in beleiving in ghosts.
The following 1 user Likes Rhythmcs's post:
  • pattylt
Reply
#9

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
(11-16-2023, 08:29 PM)epronovost Wrote: Ayaan Hisri Ali wrote one good book and then became a full time islamophobe and thus spent more and more time with right-wing nuts and basically lost her credibility. She's a good cautionary tale about hating more the things you hate than loving the things you love.

She is not an "Islamaphobe". I think that word gets thrown around way too easily. I know plenty of X Muslims from that part of the world and there is a huge difference between the politics in the west and the Hadiths and Sharia law in the east. 

She is dead wrong thinking siding with our conservative Christians here is a cure, but she is not wrong in that part of the world that Islam is deeply politically rooted in their governments over there. I would only argue that she is playing with fire here siding with our right wingers. Our Christian conservatives want to destroy our democracy here. But she is not wrong in criticizing the politicization and weaponizing of Islam over there.
 Check out my atheist poetry here... https://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/31771 I also go by "RationalPoet"@brianrrs37 on Twitter and "Brian James" Rational Poet on FB. 
The following 1 user Likes Brian37's post:
  • adey67
Reply
#10

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she is a Christian now.
Claim that west needs christianity can be only made by some ignoramus or someone jacking off to totalitarianism yet being afraid of nazi label. As for shit about authoritarian atheist states, well making claims like this shows lack of even most basic knowledge of history - Hitler Germany, Mussolini Italy or Franco Spain were anything but atheist as even fourth grader should be aware. Some argument can be made about leadership of Soviet Union being atheists but this ignores two factors - majority of Russians were religious and Marxism-Leninism itself was religion, so again it's a miss.

In short she sounds like just another dumbo proudly showcasing her ignorance.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 1 user Likes Szuchow's post:
  • pattylt
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)