I recognize a few names!

[Dom]

And he was a real carnivore.  Sometimes he would pull the burger out of the bun ("just in case?").  And he considered the onion slice his vegetable of the day.  And then complained about his health.  LOL!

Actually, humans can live healthy, all nutritional needs met, as carnivore. But, only if they eat the offal as well. That's where a lot of the nutrition is, other than in quality beef.

[pattylt]

There's  a fascinating new study out of this very issue....the conclusions may surprise you!


https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail...f-judaism/

The Origins of Judaism

When did the laws of the Torah become the norm?

So, when can we date the actual origins of Judaism? Or, as Yonatan Adler puts it: “When did ancient Judeans, as a society, first begin to observe the laws of the Torah in their daily lives?” To answer this question, Adler looks at the archaeological evidence for widespread observance of the laws of the Torah. He suggests that our inquiry begin in the first century CE, where we have plenty of evidence. He then goes backward in time, until he reaches a point when we can no longer see material traces of typical Jewish religious and ritual practices.

In particular, Adler traces archaeological imprints of the biblical laws addressing dietary prohibitions, ritual purity, graven images, tefillin and mezuzot, and Sabbath observance. In every instance, the trail of archaeological evidence ends in the mid-second century BCE—moving the origins of Judaism several centuries later than even the most critical scholars previously thought.

Surprisingly, textual sources from Babylon and Egypt, including this letter from the island of Elephantine, reveal that fifth-century BCE Judeans did not celebrate Passover at a set date, were not aware of a seven-day week or the Sabbath prohibitions, and that they sometimes prayed to deities other than Yahweh.

Widespread observance of the ritual purity laws, as attested through ritual baths (later known as mikva’ot) and the use chalk vessels, is strong in the first century BCE but gradually disappears as we look further back in time past the late second century BCE.

This is why one should never listen to pious assholes in funny hats when they claim to tell you the truth straight from their fucking god!

I can easily picture rituals and rules adapted from other or previous religions in the area.  Syncretism is pretty much how all religions take what was usual practice from one older religion and change the meaning to fit the new.  We know how Christian’s utilized pagan rituals into new meanings.  I’m sure the Jews did something similar.  If people expect certain rituals because that’s how they expressed their faith, one needs to incorporate new meanings or the people don’t think they are acting like a religion.  Would you feel like you’re praying if suddenly you were told you had to stand on one foot and hum, you wouldn’t think you were praying. 

So somewhere back in time, at least some of the Jewish rituals were probably similar to Baal or other gods worship and the food restrictions, ritual baths and 7th day rest likely were picked up from neighboring cultures.  One or two might be unique but people like to stick with what they’re already familiar with.

[Inkubus]

• Meat and dairy cannot be eaten together, as it says in the Torah : do not boil a kid in its mother's milk (Exodus 23:19).
  
• If the burger part of the cheeseburger is vegetable instead of beef, then it could be kosher, but not terribly appealing.
  

If the burger part of the cheeseburger is turkey, ham, rabbit, chicken or finned fish, it should be kosher because the cheese isn't derived from milk from those animals.  But still not as appealing.

If the cheese part of the cheeseburger is taken from the detritus between the toes, it should be kosher, but may be unmarketable.

Several reasons.  The hamburger must be made from the kosher parts of the animal.  The meat must be properly bled before grinding.  The cheese can’t be served with the meat or even in the same meal.  Neither can the bread if made with any milk product.  Ham is verboten, always! 

I was about 19 the first time I ate non kosher.  I discovered goyim gravy!  Heaven! It still took me another year + before I ate ham and when I finally had bacon, all thoughts of kosher disappeared forever.  I love bacon, I like ham.  Pork chops are ok, not a favorite!  Not having to stock two (actually 3) sets of dishes, silverware and serving dishes is delightful.

When one is keeping kosher, you really don’t think about it much…it just is what you do.  It’s after leaving it all behind that you realize how some choices are really limited and how much work it can be.

You heartless bastards! Will no one think of the lettuce?

MacDonalds Mayo:
Ingredients: Soybean oil, Water, Liquid egg yolk, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Mustard seeds, Mustard bran, Xanthan gum, Potassium sorbate, Calcium disodium.

Xanthan gum:

is a polysaccharide with many industrial uses, including as a common food additive. It can be produced from simple sugars using a fermentation process and derives its name from the species of bacteria used, Xanthomonas campestris.

Xanthomonas Campestris:
Black rot, is one of the most destructive diseases of lettuce and other crucifers. These bacteria are facultative saprophytes, meaning that they are typically parasitic while also having the ability to live on dead or decaying organic matter under the proper conditions. They also carry the bacterial toxin Lipopolysaccharides.

Lipopolysaccharides:
The presence of endotoxins in the blood is called endotoxemia. High level of endotoxemia can lead to septic shock,[49]

That Sceptic shock is some nasty shit I'll tell you. Those monkeys are getting their non dual fabric drawers in a twist over the correct placement  of the gherkin slice; on top of the cheese or on top of the onion, but meanwhile we're all being poisoned. 

Poisoned I tell you!

[Minimalist]

I can easily picture rituals and rules adapted from other or previous religions in the area.  Syncretism is pretty much how all religions take what was usual practice from one older religion and change the meaning to fit the new. 

Certainly true when you have been repeatedly overrun by the armies of those other cultures.

[Minimalist]

Perhaps the question should have been, why did the asshole who wrote all this crap down think it was so important?  I know what kosher is, the issue is WHY?  Remember, I put no value in ANYTHING written in that fucking bible.

Who knows?  Most likely, these eating practices were already common and the Bible just codified it.  Controlling eating and sex seems to be required of any religion.  There may be a reason behind the mothers milk and the kid but I sure have no idea.  Why no shellfish?  Why cloven hooves?  It’s just a control mechanism…control what people eat and how they have sex and you control the community.

So, Patty, your comments here reminded me of an article from TheOnion... from 1998.

Enjoy.

https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-l...1819564886

Jewish Elders Lift 6,000-Year Ham Ban

Shortly following the announcement, Orthodox Jews across the country stormed grocery stores, feverishly buying up all the ham they could carry.

"Canned ham, smoked ham, sliced ham, potted ham, ham loaf—they were all flying out of here," said Chris Dinardo, manager of a butcher shop in Borough Park, a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn. "Just last week, those same customers would stare longlingly at those hams for hours before slumping off with a roast turkey."

[Alan V]

A lot of ancient prohibitions have to do with ritual purity. Such superstitions are a kind of magical thinking.

[Cavebear]

And he was a real carnivore.  Sometimes he would pull the burger out of the bun ("just in case?").  And he considered the onion slice his vegetable of the day.  And then complained about his health.  LOL!

Actually, humans can live healthy, all nutritional needs met, as carnivore. But, only if they eat the offal as well. That's where a lot of the nutrition is, other than in quality beef.

Maybe. But he often nearly fainted from "hunger" every few waking hours and got cranky. I got him to eat Bean with Bacon soup and celery with cream cheese and that helped him a lot. But he was never actually "healthy".

I don't propose any particular diet, but mine is a few ounces of meat, a green veggie, a red/yellow veggie, a starch, and a tossed salad with assorted fresh fruit for "dessert". It's not especially deliberate; I just like that stuff.

[Dom]

Actually, humans can live healthy, all nutritional needs met, as carnivore. But, only if they eat the offal as well. That's where a lot of the nutrition is, other than in quality beef.

Maybe.  But he often nearly fainted from "hunger" every few waking hours and got cranky.  I got him to eat Bean with Bacon soup and celery with cream cheese and that helped him a lot.  But he was never actually "healthy".

I don't propose any particular diet, but mine is a few ounces of meat, a green veggie, a red/yellow veggie, a starch, and a tossed salad with assorted fresh fruit for "dessert".  It's not especially deliberate; I just like that stuff.

Yeah, he's not actually carnivore. Today's carnivore is a well thought out, scientifically based, properly proportioned diet. It makes use of the concentrated nutrition in liver etc. Your dude is not a carnivore.

[Aliza]

Welcome to the forum, Patty. If I can find time to post these days, I look forward to some interesting conversations with you. 

BTW, how did you get a name like Patty?

[pattylt]

Who knows?  Most likely, these eating practices were already common and the Bible just codified it.  Controlling eating and sex seems to be required of any religion.  There may be a reason behind the mothers milk and the kid but I sure have no idea.  Why no shellfish?  Why cloven hooves?  It’s just a control mechanism…control what people eat and how they have sex and you control the community.

So, Patty, your comments here reminded me of an article from TheOnion... from 1998.

Enjoy.

https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-l...1819564886

Jewish Elders Lift 6,000-Year Ham Ban

Shortly following the announcement, Orthodox Jews across the country stormed grocery stores, feverishly buying up all the ham they could carry.

"Canned ham, smoked ham, sliced ham, potted ham, ham loaf—they were all flying out of here," said Chris Dinardo, manager of a butcher shop in Borough Park, a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn. "Just last week, those same customers would stare longlingly at those hams for hours before slumping off with a roast turkey."

Too bad it’s not true!  I’d love to see it happen but, I’m twisted like that.  My dad admitted to eating spam when he was in WWII, stationed in Hawaii.  It’s actually permitted if nothing else is available as starvation isn’t expected…but, that wasn’t the case with my dad.  He was curious and actually liked it.  I doubt he ever ate it again.

It’s often traditional for some Jews to eat at Chinese restaurants on Christmas and, they just don’t ask what’s in it.  The die hard kosher keepers would never do this, however.

[pattylt]

Welcome to the forum, Patty. If I can find time to post these days, I look forward to some interesting conversations with you. 

BTW, how did you get a name like Patty?

Tradition has Jews being named for a dead relative…at least, their Hebrew name.  My maternal grandmother was Pearl  (in English) so mom kept the letter P and named me Patricia or Patty for short.  My Hebrew name is the same as hers. Patty was a more common name in 1952 when I was born.  As long as no one calls me Pat, I’m fine with the name. The L and T are my middle and last initial.  I’ve used my username for so many years it’s like my other real name…I answer to it.  Call me Trish or Tricia and I might not recognized you’re referring to me!

[Minimalist]

So, Patty, your comments here reminded me of an article from TheOnion... from 1998.

Enjoy.

https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-l...1819564886

Too bad it’s not true!  I’d love to see it happen but, I’m twisted like that.  My dad admitted to eating spam when he was in WWII, stationed in Hawaii.  It’s actually permitted if nothing else is available as starvation isn’t expected…but, that wasn’t the case with my dad.  He was curious and actually liked it.  I doubt he ever ate it again.

It’s often traditional for some Jews to eat at Chinese restaurants on Christmas and, they just don’t ask what’s in it.  The die hard kosher keepers would never do this, however.

A priest and a rabbi were sitting in adjacent seats on an airplane.
After a while the priest turned to the rabbi and asked, “Is it still a requirement of your faith that you not eat pork?”
The rabbi responded, “Yes, that is still one of our laws.”
The priest then asked, “Have you ever eaten pork?”
“Yes, on one occasion I did succumb to temptation and ate a bacon sandwich.”
The priest nodded in understanding and went on with his reading.
A while later the rabbi spoke up and asked, “Father, is it still a requirement of your church that you remain celibate?”
The priest replied, “Yes, that is still very much a part of our faith.”
The rabbi then asked him, “Father, have you ever fallen to the temptations of the flesh?”
The priest replied, “Yes, Rabbi, on one occasion I was weak and broke the pledge of my faith.”
The rabbi nodded understandingly and remained silent for several minutes.
Finally the rabbi quietly observed, “Beats the shit out of a bacon sandwich doesn’t it?”

[Aliza]

Welcome to the forum, Patty. If I can find time to post these days, I look forward to some interesting conversations with you. 

BTW, how did you get a name like Patty?

Tradition has Jews being named for a dead relative…at least, their Hebrew name.  My maternal grandmother was Pearl  (in English) so mom kept the letter P and named me Patricia or Patty for short.  My Hebrew name is the same as hers. Patty was a more common name in 1952 when I was born.  As long as no one calls me Pat, I’m fine with the name. The L and T are my middle and last initial.  I’ve used my username for so many years it’s like my other real name…I answer to it.  Call me Trish or Tricia and I might not recognized you’re referring to me!

You are the first Jewish Patricia I've ever met. Nice to meet you. Welcome to the forum. 

The tradition of naming children after deceased relatives is specifically Ashkenazi. I see it more frequently in Reform or less observant circles that only the first initial is used. I tend to see a greater effort to use the whole name or at least more of the name in observant circles. That's just my experience, so don't quote me on that.

[pattylt]

Tradition has Jews being named for a dead relative…at least, their Hebrew name.  My maternal grandmother was Pearl  (in English) so mom kept the letter P and named me Patricia or Patty for short.  My Hebrew name is the same as hers. Patty was a more common name in 1952 when I was born.  As long as no one calls me Pat, I’m fine with the name. The L and T are my middle and last initial.  I’ve used my username for so many years it’s like my other real name…I answer to it.  Call me Trish or Tricia and I might not recognized you’re referring to me!

You are the first Jewish Patricia I've ever met. Nice to meet you. Welcome to the forum. 

The tradition of naming children after deceased relatives is specifically Ashkenazi. I see it more frequently in Reform or less observant circles that only the first initial is used. I tend to see a greater effort to use the whole name or at least more of the name in observant circles. That's just my experience, so don't quote me on that.

My middle name is after my grandmother as well.  My mother was Conservative and my father Orthodox.  We went to the Orthodox shul other than weddings and funerals of friends from the other synagogues.  My fathers family came from Russia so, Ashkenazi they were.  My mother, too, thought her family had resided in Britain before coming to America and she knew little about her background before England.  The Orthodox community in my hometown (Ohio) wasn’t quite as strict as others…yes to kosher and most rituals but, I think they wanted to blend into American culture so naming me was one way without pissing off the rabbi too much.  The reb only called me by my Hebrew name but he did that with everyone. 

I completely walked away at 18.  While I didn’t hate the religion, I did hate parts of it and I just didn’t believe it.  It took a couple of years before I left the culture as well.  I saw no need to remain culturally Jewish.  I was culturally American, end of story. The one concession I made to my family, and now wish I hadn’t, was having my son circumcised and both (son and daughter) named in synagogue.  It does give them the option of right of return to Israel but with how things are developing in Israel, I doubt they’d ever go.  They are both atheists as well. It’s funny how if you don’t indoctrinate your children, they tend to choose to remain atheist, no?  Both my kids have been to shul a few times. Both know Hanukkah and Christmas and prefer Hanukkah because 8 days!  Both know about the shoah as they had an uncle with numbers on his forearm and it was important for them to know their history just as they know my husbands family history.  It’s all history to them, however.  I never dwelled on it so neither do they.

While I learned Orthodoxy from my father, I learned tea time and “proper” manners from my mom.  From neither of them did the Judaism stick. They were sad, I was happy.  We maintained a good close family relationship which is more than many ex Christian’s can say.

[Prycejosh1987]

Hello everyone.
Per the title, I’m pleased to see a few familiar names here.  For the rest of you, I’m an atheist raised Orthodox Jew.  When I left the religion…long ago…I totally left it so I don’t even refer to myself as an atheist Jew.  I’m just an atheist. ?. I hope to get to know many of you and reacquaint myself with old friends.

I am still religious because it brings hope and helps me stay mentally strong, consistent, and self valuable. You are valued but it takes a spiritual mindset to see that and show it. How can an atheist diagnose a problem and work on solving it. You cannot without seeing the damage and analysing that in has spiritual origins. This is why i believe angels and demons, God and the devil exists, and that our lives and souls are all about them.

[1Sam15]

Hello everyone.
Per the title, I’m pleased to see a few familiar names here.  For the rest of you, I’m an atheist raised Orthodox Jew.  When I left the religion…long ago…I totally left it so I don’t even refer to myself as an atheist Jew.  I’m just an atheist. ?. I hope to get to know many of you and reacquaint myself with old friends.

I am still religious because it brings hope and helps me stay mentally strong, consistent, and self valuable. You are valued but it takes a spiritual mindset to see that and show it. How can an atheist diagnose a problem and work on solving it. You cannot without seeing the damage and analysing that in has spiritual origins. This is why i believe angels and demons, God and the devil exists, and that our lives and souls are all about them.

Can you please define spiritual mindset and spiritual origins?

Do you have children?

[adey67]

I am still religious because it brings hope and helps me stay mentally strong, consistent, and self valuable. You are valued but it takes a spiritual mindset to see that and show it. How can an atheist diagnose a problem and work on solving it. You cannot without seeing the damage and analysing that in has spiritual origins. This is why i believe angels and demons, God and the devil exists, and that our lives and souls are all about them.

Can you please define spiritual mindset and spiritual origins?

Do you have children?

You won't get a reply I'm afraid mate, the guy was banned yesterday for spamming the introduction threads.

[AutisticWill]

Always love hearing from you. [Belated post, yes.]