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The Nazis of Ukraine
#1

The Nazis of Ukraine
When I first heard Putin calling the people who rule Ukraine Nazi's, I was kinda surprised by the term, but something rang a bell in my head that I had seen or heard something about this before.

I went searching and have found the video.



It's ten minutes long, I don't expect everyone to watch it so here is the TL: DW

- In the protests against Ex Ukraine leader, Viktor Yanukovych in 2013, snipers shot and killed both protestors and police. There was a leaked phone call between the Estonia and EU foreign policy advisors that voiced concern that the shooters were from the new coalition government of Ukraine.
- One of the leading groups of the pro-european protests that toppled Viktor Yanukovych was Svoboda, a neo-nazi facist group.
- The leader of Svoboda has been pictured with numerous american officals and the new leadership of Ukraine.
- There is another leaked phonecall of american officals discussing the leadership of Ukraine and who is suitable. With the US official saying "Fuck the EU" about the decision of who to be in place and that they were not keen on Svoboda playing a part in direct government, but should still be part of the leadership team.
- The propoganda piece "I am a Ukrainian" that went viral was produced by Larry Diamond, who at the time was a member of the council of foreign relations and an advisor for the US state department. It was produced by an NGO that is funded by the US State Department.
- There are then comparisons with the Syrian war and the CIA funding, arming and training moderate Syrian rebels and the US is accused of State Backed Terrorism.

I am not saying that I believe this video and I don't believe that anyone else should automatically believe it either. I used to be into conspiracy theories a very very long time ago and I fully understand that anyone has the power to professionally craft videos and edit things together to form a particular and potentially convincing narrative. I think everything in this video would ideally be fact checked before anyone could make a final decision.

If this is true though, then it makes sense why Putin refers to the leadership of Ukraine as Nazi's.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
For no matter how much I use these dead symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.
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#2

The Nazis of Ukraine
I am pretty ignorant when it comes to current events outside American borders, but I am quite aware how profoundly fucked up the United States government really is. We are never really the "good guys," but we are sometimes the "slightly better guys." The US wants to control things about as much as Russia, they just prefer to install puppets from a distance instead of launching an all-out invasion. The way the US gets involved in foreign politics is absolutely despicable, you won't get any disagreement from me there. Just look at the state we've left some South American countries in because those people had the audacity to elect a left-wing leader...

Also, I don't think it's disputed that Ukraine has a Nazi problem. The Azov Regiment isn't exactly a secret. But that doesn't change the facts: Russia is still the aggressor and they are still in the wrong when it comes to this conflict.
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#3

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 05:33 PM)Aegon Wrote: I am pretty ignorant when it comes to current events outside American borders, but I am quite aware how profoundly fucked up the United States government really is. We are never really the "good guys," but we are sometimes the "slightly better guys." The US wants to control things about as much as Russia, they just prefer to install puppets from a distance instead of launching an all-out invasion. The way the US gets involved in foreign politics is absolutely despicable, you won't get any disagreement from me there. Just look at the state we've left some South American countries in because those people had the audacity to elect a left-wing leader...

Also, I don't think it's disputed that Ukraine has a Nazi problem. The Azov Regiment isn't exactly a secret. But that doesn't change the facts: Russia is still the aggressor and they are still in the wrong when it comes to this conflict.

Why the UN hasn't done anything to Putin after 7 months just escapes me. Like seriously, what the hell needs to happen for them to stop this monster? Maybe I don't understand why they don't intervene. Someone should explain this to me.  Dunno
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#4

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 06:11 PM)Joods Wrote:
(09-30-2022, 05:33 PM)Aegon Wrote: I am pretty ignorant when it comes to current events outside American borders, but I am quite aware how profoundly fucked up the United States government really is. We are never really the "good guys," but we are sometimes the "slightly better guys." The US wants to control things about as much as Russia, they just prefer to install puppets from a distance instead of launching an all-out invasion. The way the US gets involved in foreign politics is absolutely despicable, you won't get any disagreement from me there. Just look at the state we've left some South American countries in because those people had the audacity to elect a left-wing leader...

Also, I don't think it's disputed that Ukraine has a Nazi problem. The Azov Regiment isn't exactly a secret. But that doesn't change the facts: Russia is still the aggressor and they are still in the wrong when it comes to this conflict.

Why the UN hasn't done anything to Putin after 7 months just escapes me. Like seriously, what the hell needs to happen for them to stop this monster? Maybe I don't understand why they don't intervene. Someone should explain this to me.  Dunno

UN being toothless aside Russia is permanent member of Security Council and have power to veto resolutions.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.


Socrates.
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#5

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 05:18 PM)Bemore Wrote: When I first heard Putin calling the people who rule Ukraine Nazi's, I was kinda surprised by the term, but something rang a bell in my head that I had seen or heard something about this before.

I went searching and have found the video.



It's ten minutes long, I don't expect everyone to watch it so here is the TL: DW

- In the protests against Ex Ukraine leader, Viktor Yanukovych in 2013, snipers shot and killed both protestors and police. There was a leaked phone call between the Estonia and EU foreign policy advisors that voiced concern that the shooters were from the new coalition government of Ukraine.
- One of the leading groups of the pro-european protests that toppled Viktor Yanukovych was Svoboda, a neo-nazi facist group.
- The leader of Svoboda has been pictured with numerous american officals and the new leadership of Ukraine.
- There is another leaked phonecall of american officals discussing the leadership of Ukraine and who is suitable. With the US official saying "Fuck the EU" about the decision of who to be in place and that they were not keen on Svoboda playing a part in direct government, but should still be part of the leadership team.
- The propoganda piece "I am a Ukrainian" that went viral was produced by Larry Diamond, who at the time was a member of the council of foreign relations and an advisor for the US state department. It was produced by an NGO that is funded by the US State Department.
- There are then comparisons with the Syrian war and the CIA funding, arming and training moderate Syrian rebels and the US is accused of State Backed Terrorism.

I am not saying that I believe this video and I don't believe that anyone else should automatically believe it either. I used to be into conspiracy theories a very very long time ago and I fully understand that anyone has the power to professionally craft videos and edit things together to form a particular and potentially convincing narrative. I think everything in this video would ideally be fact checked before anyone could make a final decision.

If this is true though, then it makes sense why Putin refers to the leadership of Ukraine as Nazi's.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Ukraine might have a nazi problem ( I never cared to research it ) but if it is the case it wouldn't be only country with such. More to the point Russia is a fascist state and putin does what modern fascist love best - accuse others of what he want to do himself, or in this case label others with epithet that describes him best.

Honestly Ukraine alleged nazi problem is irrelevant as even if it have one it does not give a shithole like Russia right to start war.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.


Socrates.
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#6

The Nazis of Ukraine
The US has a Nazi problem also.
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#7

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 06:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Honestly Ukraine alleged nazi problem is irrelevant as even if it have one it does not give a shithole like Russia right to start war.

It's irrelevant to normal, thinking *and* moral people, not conspiracy theorists and infantile edgelords Deadpan Coffee Drinker

But by all means, while people are getting massacred and children - raped, let's be all edgy and different on the internet. Quite a few people have shown their true colours in the last months and the ugliness has been... well, unsurprising in most cases.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#8

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 05:18 PM)Bemore Wrote: When I first heard Putin calling the people who rule Ukraine Nazi's, I was kinda surprised by the term, but something rang a bell in my head that I had seen or heard something about this before.

I went searching and have found the video.



It's ten minutes long, I don't expect everyone to watch it so here is the TL: DW

- In the protests against Ex Ukraine leader, Viktor Yanukovych in 2013, snipers shot and killed both protestors and police. There was a leaked phone call between the Estonia and EU foreign policy advisors that voiced concern that the shooters were from the new coalition government of Ukraine.
- One of the leading groups of the pro-european protests that toppled Viktor Yanukovych was Svoboda, a neo-nazi facist group.
- The leader of Svoboda has been pictured with numerous american officals and the new leadership of Ukraine.
- There is another leaked phonecall of american officals discussing the leadership of Ukraine and who is suitable. With the US official saying "Fuck the EU" about the decision of who to be in place and that they were not keen on Svoboda playing a part in direct government, but should still be part of the leadership team.
- The propoganda piece "I am a Ukrainian" that went viral was produced by Larry Diamond, who at the time was a member of the council of foreign relations and an advisor for the US state department. It was produced by an NGO that is funded by the US State Department.
- There are then comparisons with the Syrian war and the CIA funding, arming and training moderate Syrian rebels and the US is accused of State Backed Terrorism.

I am not saying that I believe this video and I don't believe that anyone else should automatically believe it either. I used to be into conspiracy theories a very very long time ago and I fully understand that anyone has the power to professionally craft videos and edit things together to form a particular and potentially convincing narrative. I think everything in this video would ideally be fact checked before anyone could make a final decision.

If this is true though, then it makes sense why Putin refers to the leadership of Ukraine as Nazi's.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Absolutely none of that even if true excuses Vladolph Putlers behaviour/actions in Ukraine. 
Slava Ukraini.
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#9

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 06:34 PM)Dom Wrote: The US has a Nazi problem also.

Yep. If you think about it, we would also have far-right militias fighting against an invader if we were invaded, just like Ukraine does right now.
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#10

The Nazis of Ukraine
Depends on who's doing the invading, tbh.
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#11

The Nazis of Ukraine
Yeah, I'm not sure who those militias would be supporting.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#12

The Nazis of Ukraine
I agree with everyone that what Putin is doing is really bad, please don't think that because I loosely question the origins of Ukraines uprising in 2013 with one single video that this in some way forgives him or justifies what is happening.

I've watched this horror show from the beginning on the internet, it's fucked up.
For no matter how much I use these dead symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.
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#13

The Nazis of Ukraine
So how much influence do these nazis actually wield? How many seats in parliament? How many cabinet postings? How much decision-making power? I mean, you name the country, we can find some nazis -- but enough, and powerful enough, to declare the nation nazi and try to steamroll it?
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#14

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 07:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: So how much influence do these nazis actually wield? How many seats in parliament? How many cabinet postings? How much decision-making power? I mean, you name the country, we can find some nazis -- but enough, and powerful enough, to declare the nation nazi and try to steamroll it?


Someone online (a Brit as well, am sorry to say) was peddling the same bull and quoting a single name of an apparently notorious nazi that apparently justifies a full blown war (some superman, that). When I called him out on his bull, he replied that yes, Russia is the MAIN aggressor. No, you privileged, armchair expert moron, there is ONLY ONE aggressor.

And at the end of the day, even if the whole of Ukraine was populated entirely by nazis, nazis as far as the eye can see, from newborn babies to people dying of old age, unless they're sending jews to the gas chambers or planning to invade other countries, how is it ANY OTHER COUNTRY'S business what is happening within an independent, sovereign country? There's more than one country that has a government all but bordering on the fascistic, no one's even sanctioning them, much less sending invading, pillaging and raping hordes.

Trying to justify, excuse, brush away or even slightly diminish the wrongness of this war in ANY way, shape or form, is the height of moral repugnance.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#15

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 09:35 PM)Vera Wrote: Someone online (a Brit as well, am sorry to say) was peddling the same bull and quoting a single name of an apparently notorious nazi that apparently justifies a full blown war (some superman, that). When I called him out on his bull, he replied that yes, Russia is the MAIN aggressor. No, you privileged, armchair expert moron, there is ONLY ONE aggressor.

And at the end of the day, even if the whole of Ukraine was populated entirely by nazis, nazis as far as the eye can see, from newborn babies to people dying of old age, unless they're sending jews to the gas chambers or planning to invade other countries, how is it ANY OTHER COUNTRY'S business what is happening within an independent, sovereign country? There's more than one country that has a government all but bordering on the fascistic, no one's even sanctioning them, much less sending invading, pillaging and raping hordes.

Trying to justify, excuse, brush away or even slightly diminish the wrongness of this war in ANY way, shape or form, is the height of moral repugnance.

We clearly both agree that Russian "justifications" for this invasion -- not "war", as that does not properly convey the nature of the aggression -- those justifications are horseshit. Intervention in no case is a fig-leaf for territorial revanchism such as Putin has argued. That's because he doesn't mind fascism so long as it is his fascism.

As for outside intervention, and I write as an American whose country has done plenty of meddling, of course it should not be done. If someone ain't messing with you, leave 'em alone. In the case of Ukraine, I've found myself willing to support the deployment of American power in order to allow the survivors to regain the lives they had ... insofar as they can, so I actually don't mind what intervention we Americans and other nations have made. Probably because it's is a decent cause.
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#16

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 09:35 PM)Vera Wrote:  unless they're sending jews to the gas chambers or planning to invade other countries

-famously, an officer who made antisemetic remarks got shitcanned by azovs then-private financial backer...A Jewish Person.  

They're doing nazism all wrong.
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#17

The Nazis of Ukraine
(09-30-2022, 09:35 PM)Vera Wrote:
(09-30-2022, 07:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: So how much influence do these nazis actually wield? How many seats in parliament? How many cabinet postings? How much decision-making power? I mean, you name the country, we can find some nazis -- but enough, and powerful enough, to declare the nation nazi and try to steamroll it?


Someone online (a Brit as well, am sorry to say) was peddling the same bull and quoting a single name of an apparently notorious nazi that apparently justifies a full blown war (some superman, that). When I called him out on his bull, he replied that yes, Russia is the MAIN aggressor. No, you privileged, armchair expert moron, there is ONLY ONE aggressor.

And at the end of the day, even if the whole of Ukraine was populated entirely by nazis, nazis as far as the eye can see, from newborn babies to people dying of old age, unless they're sending jews to the gas chambers or planning to invade other countries, how is it ANY OTHER COUNTRY'S business what is happening within an independent, sovereign country? There's more than one country that has a government all but bordering on the fascistic, no one's even sanctioning them, much less sending invading, pillaging and raping hordes.

Trying to justify, excuse, brush away or even slightly diminish the wrongness of this war in ANY way, shape or form, is the height of moral repugnance.

Unfortunately my country is heavily infested by virtue signalling idiots.
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