Amazing Find on Borneo

[Minimalist]

31,000 years ago an amputation was performed on a child - and the victim lived.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/07/asia/earl...index.html

(CNN)Buried in a shallow grave deep within a remote Indonesian cave, archaeologists have found the bones of a young individual they say could rewrite medical history.
Using radiocarbon dating techniques, scientists estimate the body has lain undisturbed for 31,000 years inside the Liang Tebo cave in eastern Kalimantan province in Borneo, according to research published in the journal Nature on Wednesday.
But the most striking aspect of the discovery was that the young man or woman was missing their lower left leg, with signs it had been carefully amputated when the person was a pre-teen or early teen before their death from unknown causes between 19 and 21, researchers said.
The otherwise remarkably intact skeleton was found by in 2020 by Australian and Indonesian archaeologists, who say the amputation reveals considerable surgical skill and is the earliest example in the archeological record, shaking up our understanding of sophistication of Stone Age humans.

[abaris]

I read about that in our own news.

The most important aspect of this story, to me at least, people cared for their peers, even back then and even if they couldn't function anymore. Which, to quite some extent, can't be said of our modern society. I'm pretty sure, the kid's parents weren't burdened with hospital bills.

[Minimalist]

Yes.  The caring of members of the group is a major consideration in the development of human culture.  But there is evidence of it going far back beyond HSS.

https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/hum...mo-erectus

As noted in this article, there is fossil evidence of aged/crippled individuals surviving which would only be possible with the support of the group among Homo Erectus.

For that matter, HE was around - and evolving - for almost 2 million years.  I am not so sure that we are not what HE turned into.

[Dancefortwo]

I read about that in our own news.

The most important aspect of this story, to me at least, people cared for their peers, even back then and even if they couldn't function anymore. Which, to quite some extent, can't be said of our modern society. I'm pretty sure, the kid's parents weren't burdened with hospital bills.

And they didn't need Jesus or the threat of hell to be concerned for the well being of someone or to be generous and giving to someone in need.

[Rhythmcs]

31k ago isn't surprising for a find that implies people cared. We've been fully modern for 50k and that kind of caring predates us.

It's just surprising for competence (and..maybe, still would be today, depending on where you looked, lol)

[Kim]

Ooh, very cool. They probably lucked upon a mould growing on a fruit or some moss & decided to see if it lessened infection. If it worked, they kept using it. That's pretty much how humans survived before germ theory & then penicillin came along.

I've been reading about the discovery of penicillin, recently. The 1st penicillin injection test took place in 1941 - the year my dad was 15 so, not quite ancient history.

By the end of WWII, French hospitals, had collection bottles at the bedside of servicemen on penicillin to collect their urine. More than 80% of their urine contained penicillin which they would extract to reuse. Talk about recycling! Humans have a history of being quite resourceful.

[abaris]

It's just surprising for competence (and..maybe, still would be today, depending on where you looked, lol)

Why is that surprising? They recooked recipes from the Middle Ages and found out, they had antibiotic capabilities. Hell, even great apes eat certain herbs that are known to cure certain ailments.

That Shaman, or whatever they were called at that time, probably had some thousands of years of traditions under their belt. Never underestimate experience. They had plenty of time to learn what works and what doesn't.

[Rhythmcs]

The middle ages were a thousand years ago not 31k. That's why. OFC you have a point, 19k years to try and fail means that alot of experience, of the wrong kind, probably went into this success. We don't have the bones of everyone we killed trying to perform what would have been a routinely necessary operation right up to the middle ages.

The hot tip today, not even the middle ages, is that if you really damage a limb and don't have access to modern medicine...seriously consider severing it as a first step. Contemporary medical advice actually sets up the conditions of an amputation as the successful conclusion of first aid in that event in the application of a field tourniquet, which is on a timer from the moment you apply it.....

[abaris]

The middle ages were a thousand years ago not 31k.  That's why.

Have you read the rest of my post?

They all drew from thousands of years of experience. And even our closest relatives in the animal kingdom are able to go by experience and tradition.

[Rhythmcs]

Neither our closest relatives nor our distant cousins have figured out how to deal with trauma quite like we have. There would be more chimps and gorillas in the world that didn't die from their gunshots wounds...if they had. I think we can go ahead and give stuff like this to us....but that "us" has been around for at least 50k exactly as we are now...culturally and anatomically.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I only had basic first aid training (USN boot camp) and OJT training with our corpsman. I still managed to amputate a shattered arm and had the dude survive. Details omitted for the squeamish.

[Minimalist]

I read about that in our own news.

The most important aspect of this story, to me at least, people cared for their peers, even back then and even if they couldn't function anymore. Which, to quite some extent, can't be said of our modern society. I'm pretty sure, the kid's parents weren't burdened with hospital bills.

And they didn't need Jesus or the threat of hell to be concerned for the well being of someone or to be generous and giving to someone in need.

Excellent point, my dear.

Such a person could  learn to knap flint or clean skins.  They would have been seen as "limited" but not useless members of the clan.

[Minimalist]

I only had basic first aid training (USN boot camp) and OJT training with our corpsman. I still managed to amputate a shattered arm and had the dude survive. Details omitted for the squeamish.

Doubtless that your training was far superior to that of Civil War "surgeons."  We came a long way baby.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I only had basic first aid training (USN boot camp) and OJT training with our corpsman. I still managed to amputate a shattered arm and had the dude survive. Details omitted for the squeamish.

Doubtless that your training was far superior to that of Civil War "surgeons."  We came a long way baby.

Actually, it was from descriptions of ACW surgeries that I took my cues. "Fast, high, clean."

[Minimalist]

They weren't big on "clean."  Fast?  Yeah they had to be fast.  And if I were them I'd have been looking to get High, too.



I suppose in the middle of a battle where you are cutting off one limb after another it would be difficult to maintain cleanliness but "germ theory" was not fully established until 1876.  After that, things improved dramatically.

[Gwaithmir]

They weren't big on "clean."  Fast?  Yeah they had to be fast.  And if I were them I'd have been looking to get High, too.

I suppose in the middle of a battle where you are cutting off one limb after another it would be difficult to maintain cleanliness but "germ theory" was not fully established until 1876.  After that, things improved dramatically.

"I cannot describe it. I remember entering the building from the rear, and there I found a pile of arms and legs, rotting and decomposing. I cannot remember another sight which I viewed with such horror." (Sam Watkins, Confederate soldier)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

They weren't big on "clean."  Fast?  Yeah they had to be fast.  And if I were them I'd have been looking to get High, too.



I suppose in the middle of a battle where you are cutting off one limb after another it would be difficult to maintain cleanliness but "germ theory" was not fully established until 1876.  After that, things improved dramatically.

"Clean" referred to the cut(s), not sanitation. Clean cuts meant you didn't have to repeat them.