US Presidential elections 2024

[Rhythmcs]

If the USA only didnt meddle in other peoples affairs.

Right?

WW2 was going great for the facists before the us joined in.  WW3 was going horribly for the fascists until the us left.  

Joking aside, you can never win with this stuff.  If you don't send aid you're prolonging a war, if you do send bombs you're prolonging a war.  In reality, both things can end a war pretty damned quick.  It's an interesting turn that the us reich wing would now like to position itself as the party of peace, and peace through appeasement rather than strength, no less.

[Chas]

The U.S. policies are base-ackwards. The war in Ukraine is strategically Important while the latest Middle Eastern one is not. While both are humanitarian clusterfucks, letting that egotistical madman have a win dooms Eastern Europe to a Russian hell.

[brewerb]

Joe's doing good at the SOTU.

[Minimalist]

The U.S. policies are base-ackwards. The war in Ukraine is strategically Important while the latest Middle Eastern one is not.

Well...you can't forget that these various gangs are proxies for Iran and those motherfuckers are batshit crazy, too.

[Aractus]

Israel is in Asia not Europe. It's a middle Eastern war.

Well the definition of the European continent is completely arbitrary, I've mentioned this before.

Joking aside, you can never win with this stuff.  If you don't send aid you're prolonging a war, if you do send bombs you're prolonging a war.  In reality, both things can end a war pretty damned quick.  It's an interesting turn that the us reich wing would now like to position itself as the party of peace, and peace through appeasement rather than strength, no less.

There is a significant difference between supporting one side in the war and supporting the war continuing. In Ukraine the US has actively sought to shut down a negotiated settlement between Russia and Ukraine. The only way for that war to end, without Ukraine being completely wiped off the map and absorbed into Russia's borders, is a negotiated settlement that sees both sides negotiate in good faith and compromise on their positions. Ukraine will suffer the loss of land now, that's inevitable, but that's also what a compromise is. Russia wants to absorb Ukraine into their borders entirely, and Ukraine wants all of their pre-war land including the annexed Crimea back.

The U.S. policies are base-ackwards. The war in Ukraine is strategically Important while the latest Middle Eastern one is not. While both are humanitarian clusterfucks, letting that egotistical madman have a win dooms Eastern Europe to a Russian hell.

Well the war in Gaza is the more important one to US presidential politics. It's happening in a US presidential election year, and the scale of Israel's alleged war crimes is unprecedented:

“I stopped keeping track of how many new orphans I had operated on. After surgery they would be filed somewhere in the hospital, I’m unsure of who will take care of them or how they will survive. On one occasion, a handful of children, all about ages 5 to 8, were carried to the emergency room by their parents. All had single sniper shots to the head. These families were returning to their homes in Khan Yunis, about 2.5 miles away from the hospital, after Israeli tanks had withdrawn. But the snipers apparently stayed behind. None of these children survived.”

The problem with Israel is they've got an extremist government that makes Trump look like a puppy dog, and many of their armed soldiers in their defence force are extremists who hate Palestinians and military service is mandatory. Only the most overtly extremists of the extremists are disqualified from military service in Israel. By no means am I saying this is a majority, it doesn't need to be, a minority of armed Israeli soldiers who believe the Bible justifies ethnic cleansing is all it takes for the kind of alleged war crime reported above to be taking place.

Anyway point is war in Gaza does not help Biden's re-election and war in Ukraine doesn't matter to the result.

[Rhythmcs]

I think there's a better compromise. Russia can leave ukraine, and ukraine can stop destroying russian infrastructure - but you make my point for me in that you can literally never win with viewpoints like the one you describe above.

[Deesse23]

Well the definition of the European continent is completely arbitrary, I've mentioned this before.

Then you are wrong, and were before. Israel and Syria arent and werent, in no way part of the european continent , period.

[Aractus]

I think there's a better compromise.  Russia can leave ukraine, and ukraine can stop destroying russian infrastructure - but you make my point for me in that you can literally never win with viewpoints like the one you describe above.

Russia won't agree to that.

That's the reality no matter what political rhetoric you hear the reality is this. 1. Russia does not believe Ukraine is a sovereign State. And 2. Is seeking to reclaim ALL of their territory. That's the Russian objective, and their investment into the war demonstrates their resolve in this.

But look, the Russian war literally does not matter to US presidential politics because most Americans believe the political rhetoric they hear about it out of the WH. It won't be until may years later that they recognise the truth similar to Iraq and Afghanistan meaning no political consequences.

[brewerb]

The republican response to the SOTU last night was sad, just sad.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?534120-1/r...on-address

[Aractus]

I would not be listening to anything about SOTU, it's just noise. :p

[Rhythmcs]

I think there's a better compromise.  Russia can leave ukraine, and ukraine can stop destroying russian infrastructure - but you make my point for me in that you can literally never win with viewpoints like the one you describe above.

Russia won't agree to that.

That's the reality no matter what political rhetoric you hear the reality is this. 1. Russia does not believe Ukraine is a sovereign State. And 2. Is seeking to reclaim ALL of their territory. That's the Russian objective, and their investment into the war demonstrates their resolve in this.

But look, the Russian war literally does not matter to US presidential politics because most Americans believe the political rhetoric they hear about it out of the WH. It won't be until may years later that they recognise the truth similar to Iraq and Afghanistan meaning no political consequences.

You must mean putin wouldn't agree, surely, lol.  Oh well, that's the nature of compromise.  You have to agree to shit you don't want to.  The average ukranian won't want to stop fucking russia up for generations.

I'm not as convinced that there are no political consequences, and you might be living in universe b if you believe iraq and afghanistan didn't have any...even from the most cynical viewpoint.

[Minimalist]

Joe took it to them last night.  What a bunch of sad sacks of shits those republiKKKunts are.

[Dānu]

And then the Republicans dug up one of the Stepford Wives for their rebuttal.

[Minimalist]

That was probably the first time that hillbilly ever wore shoes....her feet hurt!

[Rhythmcs]

It was riveting, I couldn't look away. She's not one of us. She's one of them what lived among us, who now seeks to rule over us.

On a dead serious note, though, I think that they went with that shows how deeply they've bought in to their own propaganda about what motivates democratic voters. They're not motivated by histrionic women in open blouses sitting in kitchens that cost more than their lives - but they're sure that's the only reason democratic voters are doing all the things they don't like...assuming as a matter of fact that everyone secretly agrees with them on those things.

The Downfall cut is going to be epic.

[pattylt]

That was probably the first time that hillbilly ever wore shoes....her feet hurt!

And from her kitchen!  Boy, does that send a message…

[Minimalist]

At least it wasn't the bedroom.

[Aractus]

You must mean putin wouldn't agree, surely, lol.  Oh well, that's the nature of compromise.  You have to agree to shit you don't want to.  The average ukranian won't want to stop fucking russia up for generations.

I'm not as convinced that there are no political consequences, and you might be living in universe b if you believe iraq and afghanistan didn't have any...even from the most cynical viewpoint.

No, I man Russia. If Putin was removed and replaced with a military official you'd have someone much worse than Putin in charge.

[epronovost]

I got to admit that the rebuttal to the State of the Union speech was really terrible. She felt like the villainess in a horror movie where rich people hunt and kill poor people having a melt down while making a speech explaining her motivations for her horrible crimes.

[Cavebear]

The U.S. policies are base-ackwards. The war in Ukraine is strategically Important while the latest Middle Eastern one is not. While both are humanitarian clusterfucks, letting that egotistical madman have a win dooms Eastern Europe to a Russian hell.

Still, the wars in Ukraine and the Middle East matter to the people there. The Ukrainians have a lot to fear; they are being attacked by a larger nation. So do the Israelis, almost the entire Middle East wants to wipe them from the face of the Earth. I think both deserve our help.

[Rhythmcs]

You must mean putin wouldn't agree, surely, lol.  Oh well, that's the nature of compromise.  You have to agree to shit you don't want to.  The average ukranian won't want to stop fucking russia up for generations.

I'm not as convinced that there are no political consequences, and you might be living in universe b if you believe iraq and afghanistan didn't have any...even from the most cynical viewpoint.

No, I man Russia. If Putin was removed and replaced with a military official you'd have someone much worse than Putin in charge.

If you say so...but consider your own framing to see why that doesn't matter either.  Why you can literally never win with such viewpoints.

You say russia wants their territory back and that it's clear that they'll do whatever it takes to get whatever they think is theirs - so ukraine needs to compromise.  Suppose they did, wouldn't they still be left holding the other half of ukraine, which russia still sees as it's territory, that they would do anything to take?  

You say that getting rid of the current crop of oligarchs wouldn't matter, russia would be an even worse bad faith actor under the next set.  Well, okay, and would -that- be a reason to negotiate with them.....?

Lay aside your tendency to repeat the nonsense coming straight out of putins ass - you're making the case against compromise with this stuff.  These are the reasons that ukranians feel the need to fight. They already tried compromise. They already tried a ceasefire. This...is what they got...for that...and you and yours and russia are promising more of the same should they do it again. The only thing any of you are going to convince ukranians to do with any of this is lock and load another magazine. OFC, the message isn't for them. It's for us, on the hopes that if we abandon those ukranians russia will lose fewer men and not suffer the humiliation they've brought upon themselves in their attempt to exterminate them. It's just not a winning argument from a ukranian perspective that they have to lay down and be murdered so that russia doesn't do something worse to..I guess....someone else.

Domestically, as in in-the-us, having gotten issues like this wrong has cost the only remaining american political party dearly. Just like getting the war on terror wrong did. I guess it was twenty years ago, but, just as a refresher, are we not clear on what happened when the democrats sniffed the political winds coming out of bush and putins parties and decided to throw in with them? How this became yet another point of demographic leverage for the republican party, and later the magat party, to peel away the...maybe...200k people in the us, in specific districts in particular battleground states, that have since determined our every national election?

[Cavebear]

The U.S. policies are base-ackwards. The war in Ukraine is strategically Important while the latest Middle Eastern one is not.

Well...you can't forget that these various gangs are proxies for Iran and those motherfuckers are batshit crazy, too.

It is all a autocrat vs democracy fight. Everywhere. Doesn't matter where. Wherever there is a democracy struggling to survive, we should support it fully. Because the autocracies are trying to expand wherever they can for mutual support. Democracy is both the best and most fragile form of government...

"
“Democracies may die at the hands not of generals but of elected leaders—presidents or prime ministers who subvert the very process that brought them to power. Some of these leaders dismantle democracy quickly, as Hitler did in the wake of the 1933 Reichstag fire in Germany. More often, though, democracies erode slowly, in barely visible steps.”

"To save our democracy, Americans need to restore the basic norms that once protected it. But we must do more than that. We must extend those norms through the whole of a diverse society."

"The drift into authoritarianism doesn’t always set off alarm bells. Citizens are often slow to realize that their democracy is being dismantled even as it happens before their eyes."

Democracy dies "less at the hand of men with guns and more by elected leaders".

I don't list the authors of the quotes lest there be a reaction to them and not the thoughts.

Democracy dies one slight step at a time. A little change here, a little change there. The changes add up. Suddenly, the courts are full of people with a "view". Then a few voting laws get changed. Not much at a time, but a little bit has an impact. Then one State makes an investigation into voter registrations and suddenly some people get dropped off the rolls for plausible reasons. Which seems fair but it is always the voters of "the other side" that get dropped.

It's not that someone suddenly declares he/she is "president for life" all of a sudden. It is the drips and drabs that accumulate to a finality where that becomes likely at some rather unspecific point. And we stop being a democracy. The 2 term limit goes away. The Electoral College (bad as it is) becomes a Congressional decision. You can vote, but it doesn't matter like it once did.

I don't want to go all-out political here, but I think the upcoming US Presidential election decides a lot for the next decade.

Democracy dies when people stop thinking that it matters...

[Minimalist]

Keep shooting yourselves in the foot, shitheads!

https://heartlandsignal.com/2024/03/08/a...our-knees/

[color=rgba(10,25,40,var(--tw-text-opacity))]Arizona GOP refuses to pass contraception protections as party leader tells women to put aspirin ‘between your knees’[/color]

[color=rgba(52,64,73,var(--tw-text-opacity))]Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs’ (D) efforts to enshrine contraception access into state law appear to have hit a wall of opposition as the Republican leaders in the state Senate and House refuse to advance the bill known as “The Right to Contraception Act.”[/color]

[color=rgba(52,64,73,var(--tw-text-opacity))]If passed, the legislation would protect the ability for Arizonans to acquire and use all forms of birth control as well as guarantee the right for doctors to provide information and prescribe birth control medication to patients. When asked by Arizona Mirror’s Gloria Rebecca Gomez whether he would oppose future efforts to restrict contraception, Senate Majority Leader Sonny Borrelli (R-Lake Havasu City) implied that women wouldn’t need contraception if they didn’t have so much sex.[/color]
[color=rgba(52,64,73,var(--tw-text-opacity))]“Like I said, Bayer Company invented aspirin. Put it between your knees,” Borrelli said.[/color]

Ignorant, arrogant, bastards.

[airportkid]

[color=rgba(52,64,73,var(--tw-text-opacity))]... Senate Majority Leader Sonny Borrelli (R-Lake Havasu City) implied that women wouldn’t need contraception if they didn’t have so much sex ...[/color]

The anti-contraceptive bandwagon is incomprehensible - it's directed solely at keeping women from having sex.  Men are driving this bandwagon.  Who do they think the women they want to stop having sex are having sex with?  It's a paradox so extreme the only sense possible is the male cohort of the GOP has an IQ of about 100 - a collective IQ distributed amongst all its members.

[Minimalist]

It's what happens when you let fucking preachers do the talking!