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Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
#26

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
I always get a chuckle about how many fundy Catholics must get their undies-in-a-bunch over what Dr. Moss writes.
She wrote a great book, entitled "The Myth of Persecution", in which she exposes the lies about many of the martyrs and early saints, and the (fake) "persecutions" they are said to have undergone.
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#27

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 04:39 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-04-2021, 04:28 PM)Fireball Wrote: Off topic, but who names a kid Candida? Especially with a last name like Moss?  Huh

I know, right? Candida causes fungal disease.

LOL
Candida albicans IS the fungal disease.
Who would name their baby for a fungus ?
Big Grin
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#28

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
Maybe they were thinking of the very fun musical, "Candide" and accidentally added an "a" at the end instead of an "e".   Music is by Leonard Bernstein and it's based on a satirical book by Voltaire.  


So to sum this up, "Candide" is a musical   V V V   


[Image: 91zxdRioOeL._RI_.jpg]



And "Candida" is a fungus.  V V V 


[Image: candida1-300x172.jpg]





Big Grin

ETA: Also, Candida MOSS? Moss is a plant but sometimes it's as hard to get rid of as a fungus. Candida Moss seems like a nom de plume.
                                                         T4618
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#29

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
For those of us that don't need +9 readers...

(08-03-2021, 11:13 PM)Minimalist Wrote: There may be nothing in this essay that categorically proves that the martyrdom of Polycarp could not have been written in the second century.The second-century dating, however, is anchored by the assumption that the text is an eyewitness report. This assumption is itself rooted in scholarly assumptions about the historicity of martyr acts and intertextuality in early Christian literature. When, as we have seen, authenticity is put aside the dating of the text becomes uncertain. While it is possible that the text is a deeply theological second-century version of events, a authenticity isput aside the dating of the text becomes uncertain. While it is possiblethat the text is a deeply theological second-century version of events, anumber of elements – the rhetorical use of first-person reports, the legal incongruities, the Biblical parallelism, the use of the term ‘Catholic Church’, the behavior of Quintus, the apologia for the absence of relics,the inventio-styled epilogues, the concern about the status of the martyrs,and the lack of early witnesses to the account – suggest that the text was composed later, perhaps in the first half of third century.Given that the text is only gently polemical there is no one narrative feature that can empower us to suggest a firm date. As it stands, however,the text can hardly be viewed as “authentic” or as consonant with second-century forms of Christianity and it is thus necessary to exercise some caution with respect to the date. It is likely that traditions about the death of Polycarp circulated and grew before the composition of the account, in which case there may be elements in it that arise out of either oral traditions or an earlier second-century version of the account. None of this means, however,that the extant text was composed in the second century.Unless we divide the account into multiple compositional layers, the dating of MPol must be able to account for the historical inaccuracies and late interests of the work. When these are taken into consideration, it seems much more likely that the version of MPol that we possess was composed in the third century. It is possible, perhaps even probable, that the author of MPol had some form of literary material at his disposal.
 
If such documentation existed, the author’s use of it far outstrips conventional under-standings of ‘editing’ or ‘redacting’. We should treat MPol as a third-century composition that may have been redacted in the fourth century. As unsatisfying as this conclusion remains, it is critically important for historians of martyrdom in particular and historians of Christianity in general to recognize the difficulties in dating this text.
 
Candida R. Moss
University of Notre Dame
Department of Theology
 
 
https://www.academia.edu/368096/On_the_D...card=title
 
The jesus freaks love Polycarp.  They'd love it even more if it were true.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.
[Image: JUkLw58.gif]
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#30

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 04:40 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(08-04-2021, 01:42 PM)Inkubus Wrote: I thought it was pretty well understood the story of Polycarp was complete bollocks. I like Kenneth Humphreys take on it.
Witness creation programme Big Grin

Ken is a good man, he treats this horseshit with the proper amount of disdain and adds a comedic touch.  The religitards hate him.

I love the guy but his website is a fucking horror.
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#31

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
I learn something new every time I go there, though.  But then I click a link and it is like being in a maze trying to get to where I was!

Still, it is a bit like getting lost in a cat house.  You never know what you may find behind every curtain.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#32

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 05:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: I always get a chuckle about how many fundy Catholics must get their undies-in-a-bunch over what Dr. Moss writes.
She wrote a great book, entitled "The Myth of Persecution", in which she exposes the lies about many of the martyrs and early saints, and the (fake) "persecutions" they are said to have undergone.


TBH, Buck, I have a problem with this whole "bishop" horseshit at such an early period. 

Granted that,

A) the early church bullshitters were laboring under the stress of their godboy supposedly claiming that the kingdom of god would happen while some of them listening were still alive, and

B) that clearly had not happened.

They had a problem.

It seems that jesusism was not meant to be a church but just a movement - like Heaven's Gate - of kooks who expected the world to end and all that shit. But the Roman world persisted and grew and by the second century was at its zenith.  "God" was clearly fucking this thing up.  

So as a working hypothesis it looks like they decided they suddenly had to find a reason to organize the sheep into flocks and that's when this whole bishop horseshit started.  But it is hard to see such a need prior to the late 2d - early 3'd century.  Oddly, that's what Ferdinand Baur and much more recently Richard Pervo have said.  Jesus freaks of course shit the bed over that because if Acts is late than "Luke" is also late and they would rather amputate their arms with a broken bottle than admit that!

But the simple fact is that xtians were a small minority of the population, living in scattered groups across the (mainly) Eastern portions of the empire.

The group which ultimately won out was faced with other xtian groups and they apparently opposed each other with a hatred that only the "godly" can manage! 

There was no "church" per se to establish such doctrinal orthodoxy.

Even this Paul asshole only speaks of bishops in 1 Timothy, a work which is commonly recognized as a forgery written in his name which sort of negates the point.

It's curious.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#33

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 11:08 PM)Minimalist Wrote: I learn something new every time I go there, though.  But then I click a link and it is like being in a maze trying to get to where I was!

Still, it is a bit like getting lost in a cat house.  You never know what you may find behind every curtain.

Absolutely, getting lost is a certainty but as you say you always land on something absorbing.
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#34

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
I don't want to derail my own thread but I spotted this quote while reading David Fitzgerald's "Jesus, Mything in action" and wanted to put it somewhere before I lost it.

Quote:My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.” - John Dominic Crossan
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#35

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 04:28 PM)Fireball Wrote: Off topic, but who names a kid Candida? Especially with a last name like Moss?  Huh

Gosh, that's a whole thread!
Is this sig thing on?
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#36

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
Back on point, Project Gutenberg has maintained Joseph Wheeler's "Frauds and Follies of the Fathers" published in 1882 so long before Moss was born.  He has this to say about old Polycrappie.

Quote:Most of the little that is reported of this saint is also probably mythical. His importance chiefly depends upon his being made the link between the Apostle John and Irenæus, the first writer who towards the close of the second century names the four Gospels.


(The above is important.  The implication is that a lot of this stuff was invented later to fill in inconvenient blanks in the record.)

Quote: The Church of Smyrna is said to have issued an encyclical letter detailing Polycarp's martyrdom, which is reported by that eminent Church historian, or rather mythographist, Eusebius ("Ec. Hist.," iv., 15). It relates how "as Polycarp was entering into the stadium, there came to him a voice from heaven, saying, 'Be strong, and show thyself a man O, Polycarp.' No one saw who it was that spoke to him, but those of our brethren who were present heard the voice" (chap, ix., p. 88). Upon which Dr. Donaldson quietly says ("Apostolical Fathers," chap, iii., p. 202; 1874): "It is not very probable that there was any voice from heaven; and it is improbable that there were Christians in the place to hear the voice."
The old father proved to be of the asbestos-like nature of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. "When he had pronounced this amen, and so finished his prayer, those who were appointed for the purpose kindled the fire. And as the flame blazed forth in great fury, we, to whom it was given to witness it, beheld a great miracle, and have been preserved that we might report to others what then took place. For the fire, shaping itself into the form of an arch, like the sail of a ship when filled with wind, encompassed as by a circle the body of the martyr. And he appeared within not like flesh which is burnt, but as bread that is baked, or as gold and silver glowing in a furnace. Moreover, we perceived such a sweet odor, as if frankincense or some precious spice had been smoking there" (chap, xv., p. 92). But this divine interposition was only to make a display—Polycarp was not to escape; he was only saved from the flames to perish by the dagger. "At length, when those wicked men perceived that his body could not be consumed by the fire, they commanded an executioner to go near and pierce him through with a dagger. And on doing this, there came forth a dove, and a great quantity of blood, so that the fire was extinguished; and all the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been, or shall yet be, accomplished" (chap, xvi., p. 92). The account relates that Polycarp had a vision of his pillow on fire, and prophesied therefrom that he should be burnt alive.
The dove which flew out of Polycarp's side proved him to have been possessed of the Holy Ghost. Herodian relates that at the Apotheosis of the Roman emperors it formed part of the solemnity to let an eagle fly from out of the burning pile of wood on which the corpse of the new deity was cremated, to intimate that this bird of Jove carried the soul of the deceased to heaven. Lucian, in his account of the death of Peregrinus, relates how he told the simpletons that at the death of this Christian martyr, a vulture flew up out of the flames, taking his course direct to the skies, and screaming out in an articulate voice, "Soaring above the earth, I ascend to Olympus." The miracles at the death of Polycarp may be just as true as that of the earthquake and the saints having come out of their graves at the death of Jesus; but sceptics will doubtless be found who consider, with Dr. Donaldson (p. 219), that "not one of the facts has proper historical testimony for it."

Apparently, Wheeler thought it was all horseshit, too.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#37

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
Thread title can be taken several different ways Big Grin
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#38

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
The spice of life!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#39

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 04:28 PM)Fireball Wrote: Off topic, but who names a kid Candida? Especially with a last name like Moss?  Huh

1. Elsie Otter

Zooey Deschanel and husband Jacob Pechenik named their first child, a daughter, Elsie Otter.

2. Apple

Actress Gwyneth Paltrow and her musician ex-husband Chris Martin named their daughter Apple Blythe Alison Martin.

3. Sage Moonblood

In the 1970's, Sylvester Stallone and ex-wife Sasha Czack named their son Sage Moonblood.

4. Bluebell Madonna

Former Spice Girl Geri Halliwell's daughter, Bluebell Madonna, was born in 2006.

5. Blue Ivy

Singer Beyoncé and husband Jay-Z named their first child, a daughter, Blue Ivy.

6. Kal-El

Actor Nicholas Cage's wife, Alice Kim, gave birth to the couple's son Kal-El — which is Superman's birth name — in 2005.

7. Heiress Harris

Rapper T.I. — born Clifford Harris — has a daughter named Heiress Harris.

8. North West

The first child of rapper Kanye West and socialite Kim Kardashian was a daughter named North West. The couple named their second child, a son, Saint.

9 - 11. Fifi, Peaches and Little

Musician Bob Geldof and wife Paula Yates named their three daughters Fifi Trixibelle, Peaches Honeyblossom and Little Pixie.

12 - 15. Moon, Dweezil, Ahmet and Diva

Musician Frank Zappa and wife Adelaide Sloatman named their children Moon, Dweezil, Ahmet and Diva.

16. Zowie Bowie

Musician David Bowie and ex-wife Mary Barnett named their son Zowie Bowie. Zowie later changed his name to Duncan.

17. Briar Rose

Actress Rachel Bilson and partner Hayden Christensen named their daughter after the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale, giving her the name Briar Rose when she was born in 2014.

18-19. Birdie and Cricket

Actress Busy Philipps and husband Marc Silverstein have two daughters named Birdie Leigh and Cricket Pearl.

20-21. Cosimo and Tuesday

Singer Beck and wife Marissa Rabisi have two children — a son named Cosimo Henri and a daughter named Tuesday.

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22. Coco

In 2004, actors Courtney Cox and David Arquette welcomed a daughter named Coco Riley into the world.

23-24. Denim and Diezel

Singer Toni Braxton has two children with ex-husband Keri Lewis. Their names are Denim Cole and Diezel Ky.

25. Everest

Filmmaker George Lucas and wife Mellody Hobson named their daughter — who was born in 2013 — Everest Hobson.

26. Huckleberry

Television presenter Bear Grylls and wife Shara Knight welcomed son Huckleberry in 2009.

27-31. Poppy, Daisy, Petal, Buddy and River

Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver and his wife Juliette Norton have five children: Poppy Honey Rosie, Daisy Boo Pamela, Petal Blossom Rainbow, Buddy Bear Maurice and River Rocket.

32. Maple

Actor Jason Bateman and wife Amanda Anka have a daughter named Maple Sylvia.

33-34. Moroccan and Monroe

The twin sons of singer Mariah Carey and actor Nick Cannon are named Moroccan and Monroe.

35. Usher

Musician Usher Raymond and ex-wife Tameka Foster have two sons, one of whom is named Usher after his famous father.

36-38. Seven, Puma and Mars

Singer Erykah Badu has three children — a son named Seven Sirius and two daughters named Puma Sabti and Mars Merkaba.

39-40. Indiana and Atticus
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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#40

Candida Moss Shits On Polycarp
(08-04-2021, 04:39 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-04-2021, 04:28 PM)Fireball Wrote: Off topic, but who names a kid Candida? Especially with a last name like Moss? 

I know, right? Candida causes fungal disease.

Oh dear..... I had to look it up.  Candida is a yeast infection of the vagina and tissues at the opening of the vagina (vulva).

Coulda been worse I guess?  "Syphilis"?   "Herpes"?     Or even "Mononucleosis"?     Big Grin
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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