Intro and 7 Wonders of Jewish History

[Minimalist]

Whenever one of our resident right-wing nuts posts something from an unknown source I always hit the "Home" button and look around for an "About" or "Our Mission" or some such shit.  That's how one finds out that what one is reading has been put out by the Moonies, or the Nazis, or Falun Gong, or, in one recent case, "Trotskyites."  Which is quite a trick as Trotsky has been dead for a long time.

Anyway, I always like to know the source and what their motive is.  And Aish is not as pure as you seem to believe.  They are just pushing propaganda like all religitards.

[Dom]

Whenever one of our resident right-wing nuts posts something from an unknown source I always hit the "Home" button and look around for an "About" or "Our Mission" or some such shit.  That's how one finds out that what one is reading has been put out by the Moonies, or the Nazis, or Falun Gong,  or, in one recent case, "Trotskyites."  Which is quite a trick as Trotsky has been dead for a long time.

Anyway, I always like to know the source and what their motive is.  And Aish is not as pure as you seem to believe.  They are just pushing propaganda like all religitards.

Yabbut, they don't come to you to push their beliefs. You have to go to them and ask. Big difference.

[SYZ]

It is on their website...

So you went to their websites... they didn't reach out to you. Nobody came to your doorstep, sent you a mailer, or called your phone to urge you to visit Aish and Alislam. You made the independent decision to visit their domains.

What exactly is the problem here?

I guess the inherent problem with all religiously-motivated sites (IMHO) is that the information
they provide—the alleged  factual nature of their content, their surreptitious pathos, their
appeal to authority, and even their blatant misrepresentations—can entrap the minds of people
merely searching for some sorts of answers, particularly the young or poorly educated.  And often
these sites are utilised as thinly-disguised proselyting, which I'm strongly against in any/all forms.

It's really immaterial that Aish.com or Alislam.org didn't force themselves upon Minimalist; the point
is that their sites are out there in the plain sight of millions of potential viewers, with the concomitant
likelihood of people visiting them—maybe even by accident.

It's like saying there're hundreds of alleged snuff movie sites out there, but just because I personally
don't choose to (and never have!) visit them shouldn't preclude me from criticising their content, or
expressing my repugnance at the content.     Same with religious sites.      

[Inkubus]

What exactly is the problem here?

The problem or rather your problem is, you were taken in by a blatant obvious troll. And now you're performing all sorts of mental acrobatics and linguistic tricks on order to get out of the corner you painted yourself in.

Just admit it; you were had.

[Aliza]

What exactly is the problem here?

The problem or rather your problem is, you were taken in by a blatant obvious troll. And now you're performing all sorts of mental acrobatics and linguistic tricks on order to get out of the corner you painted yourself in.

Just admit it; you were had.

No. I'm receptive to the possibility, but I don't see it. Aside from the opening post (for which I think he apologized) he has been polite, courteous, and respectful of other's beliefs. I have seen nothing that stands out as abnormal or serves as evidence that he's a troll or is here to proselytize.

[SYZ]

Whenever one of our resident right-wing nuts posts something from an unknown source I always hit the "Home" button...

Yabbut, they don't come to you to push their beliefs. You have to go to them and ask. Big difference.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.  The mere fact that a religious site is in the public space (the WWW)
means it's open to criticism regardless of whether or not people actively seek it out or not.  I know there are
sites on the same platform that deal with the manufacture of weapons or drugs, which I've never visited, and
that have never contacted me, but that's a poor excuse for their enablement.  In effect, you're saying that it's
perfectly okay for all these psycho wingnut sites to exist on the internet—as long as they don't force themselves
upon you?  Or that we shouldn't be able to badmouth them?   How does that work?

[mordant]

With each passing day it appears to be a moot point. He hasn't come back in a very long time. It's speculative, but not unreasonable, to say that he's not getting what he wanted from the conversation (such as it was) and has lost interest. It's a data point for him that his "wonders" have no traction with skeptics. Whether he'll take that on board thoughtfully or just avoids engaging with skeptics in the future, is up to him.

At this point the pacing is kind of ridiculous anyway. I think in the future that anyone wanting a more structured debate format needs to commit to a minimum of 48 hours response time as at least a good faith target (obviously, shit happens to all of us, but I don't remember the last time someone was this ... I don't know the word I'm fishing for, un-eager?? ... to move things along). Such things should go without saying but apparently it has to be made explicit.

[Dom]

Whenever one of our resident right-wing nuts posts something from an unknown source I always hit the "Home" button...

Yabbut, they don't come to you to push their beliefs. You have to go to them and ask. Big difference.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.  The mere fact that a religious site is in the public space (the WWW)
means it's open to criticism regardless of whether or not people actively seek it out or not.  I know there are
sites on the same platform that deal with the manufacture of weapons or drugs, which I've never visited, and
that have never contacted me, but that's a poor excuse for their enablement.  In effect, you're saying that it's
perfectly okay for all these psycho wingnut sites to exist on the internet—as long as they don't force themselves
upon you?  Or that we shouldn't be able to badmouth them?   How does that work?

It has nothing to do with bad mouthing. I am just saying that they don't proselytize. The most annoying thing to me about Christians is that they try to convince you to join their madness and feel entitled to doing so. That is annoying as heck.

Jews don't do that. They don't care what you do, they care about what they do. They don't proselytize, you have to go find them and ask.

It's a big difference IMO.

[Minimalist]

They don't care what you do, they care about what they do.

Um.....bullshit.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-of-..._n_3251379

Thousands of ultra-Orthodox jeered, spit and threw rocks at the 400 ‘Women of the Wall’ who prayed at the Western Wall today, according to the Jerusalem Post.

The women were protected by the police following a recent court order in favor of the Women of the Wall’s right to pray at the sacred site.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-...-injure-1/

Jerusalem Haredim attack medics coming to perform coronavirus test, injure 1

Police crack down on violations of virus rules in ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood, arresting 4 , amid public outcry over perceived lack of enforcement

https://www.jta.org/2018/07/18/video/har...it-shemesh

Orthodox mob harasses teenage girl in Jerusalem suburb over ‘immodest’ clothing

No.  If you get enough of the motherfuckers in one place they are every bit as bad as all the other adherents of the angry desert god.  Fuck all of them.

[Dom]

They don't care what you do, they care about what they do.

Um.....bullshit.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-of-..._n_3251379

Thousands of ultra-Orthodox jeered, spit and threw rocks at the 400 ‘Women of the Wall’ who prayed at the Western Wall today, according to the Jerusalem Post.

The women were protected by the police following a recent court order in favor of the Women of the Wall’s right to pray at the sacred site.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-...-injure-1/

Jerusalem Haredim attack medics coming to perform coronavirus test, injure 1

Police crack down on violations of virus rules in ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood, arresting 4 , amid public outcry over perceived lack of enforcement

https://www.jta.org/2018/07/18/video/har...it-shemesh

Orthodox mob harasses teenage girl in Jerusalem suburb over ‘immodest’ clothing

No.  If you get enough of the motherfuckers in one place they are every bit as bad as all the other adherents of the angry desert god.  Fuck all of them.

How is that proselytizing? Have you ever had a Jew knocking on your door and try to convert you?

Nobody is saying there is nothing wrong with the religion, or that there are no Jewish assholes. I have said from the beginning of the thread that they do not proselytize, and none of the replies I get are about that.

[Minimalist]

Fuck proselytizing.  They are rioting in the streets so they can impose their own ways on everyone else in society.  I grew up in NY.  Non-observant Jews were fine.  But these orthodox fucks are the scum of the earth.  Even other Jews hate them.
 
You know.....just like Trumptards.

[Minimalist]

[Aliza]

They don't care what you do, they care about what they do.

Um.....bullshit.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-of-..._n_3251379

Thousands of ultra-Orthodox jeered, spit and threw rocks at the 400 ‘Women of the Wall’ who prayed at the Western Wall today, according to the Jerusalem Post.

The women were protected by the police following a recent court order in favor of the Women of the Wall’s right to pray at the sacred site.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-...-injure-1/

Jerusalem Haredim attack medics coming to perform coronavirus test, injure 1

Police crack down on violations of virus rules in ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood, arresting 4 , amid public outcry over perceived lack of enforcement

https://www.jta.org/2018/07/18/video/har...it-shemesh

Orthodox mob harasses teenage girl in Jerusalem suburb over ‘immodest’ clothing

No.  If you get enough of the motherfuckers in one place they are every bit as bad as all the other adherents of the angry desert god.  Fuck all of them.

These examples, though not exactly our finest moments, are about Jews policing other Jews. All communities have social standards and many people do attempt to take matters into their own hands. That's not unique to Jewish people... that's just people being people.

I admit to merely scanning the articles (I think I'm familiar with the stories), and I don't think any of these have anything to do with gentiles at all.

[Dom]

People keep talking past each other here. Some are talking about proselytizing, others about internal behavior, and others about the inherent follies of religion. 

There doesn't actually seem to be a disagreement, each just keeps talking about their own topic as if it were the only topic here.

[SYZ]

In Australia there were 91,022 people who identified as Jewish in our 2016 Federal census.
This equates to 0.04% of our population; as a result Judaism has never caused any real
societal issues here.  The most notorious issue of recent times was the charging of Jewish
school principal Malka Leifer  with 74 counts of sexual abuse.

Generally, Australian Jews have an almost invisible appearance in our society, apart from a
handful of Jewish schools, or yeshivos, across the country (19 in 2011).  They focus mainly
on the study of traditional religious texts, primarily the Talmud and the Torah, and halacha.

In 2020, the annual base fees at either Mount Scopus Memorial College, Bialik College or
King David School in Melbourne ranged from $32,000 in Year 7, to $37,000 in Year 12.  All
three are among the most expensive schools in Victoria.

—Which is of course all about the Jewish money-making machine LOL.

The Australian Education and Training Reform Act 2006 is strong in its intention, asserting
that instruction in the standard curriculum in Victorian government schools is provided for
free. If a school chooses to request any fees from parents, this is via a voluntary financial
contribution, and should not be in any way obligatory.

Here in Australia, until 2019, research showed it cost $70,604 to send a child to a government
school for 13 years.  For the same years, it cost $438,390 to send a child to a church school
for 13 years.

The Jewish schools, the Catholic, the Anglican, and the Islamic schools are all money grubbers
intent on turning out blindly obedient little followers of their whacko beliefs.

[Bucky Ball]

In the US, the very well-funded pro-Israel lobbies (some of them Christian groups), and pro Israel foreign policy groups may not try to get religious converts,
but they all use the assumption that the Bible is a real-estate contract, and God gave them the promised land, and it's still a legitimate concept.

[Inkubus]

...The Jewish schools, the Catholic, the Anglican, and the Islamic schools are all money grubbers
intent on turning out blindly obedient little followers of their whacko beliefs.

I don't know if it's part of the Jewish apologetic handbook but the usual Christian retort is: the exorbitant fees are justified by the higher standard of education.
Figures do show that kids taught in a Catholic school do achieve better grades in examinations, but then those same schools can afford to be choosy. You have to be smart to get in one.

[Aliza]

In the US, the very well-funded pro-Israel lobbies (some of them Christian groups), and pro Israel foreign policy groups may not try to get religious converts,
but they all use the assumption that the Bible is a real-estate contract, and God gave them the promised land, and it's still a legitimate concept.

Biblical contract or not, the Jewish people were given the land fair and square by the previous government.

[Bucky Ball]

In the US, the very well-funded pro-Israel lobbies (some of them Christian groups), and pro Israel foreign policy groups may not try to get religious converts,
but they all use the assumption that the Bible is a real-estate contract, and God gave them the promised land, and it's still a legitimate concept.

Biblical contract or not, the Jewish people were given the land fair and square by the previous government.

Nope.
Israel has declared at least 26 percent of the West Bank as “state land”. Using a different interpretation of Ottoman, British and Jordanian laws, Israel stole public and private Palestinian land for settlements under the pretext of “state land”.Nov 21, 2017
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/20...index.html
"On 10 September 2019 (shortly before the September 2019 Israeli legislative election) Netanyahu announced his government's plan to annex the Jordan Valley, if it won the election."

[Dom]

In the US, the very well-funded pro-Israel lobbies (some of them Christian groups), and pro Israel foreign policy groups may not try to get religious converts,
but they all use the assumption that the Bible is a real-estate contract, and God gave them the promised land, and it's still a legitimate concept.

Biblical contract or not, the Jewish people were given the land fair and square by the previous government.

Nope.
Israel has declared at least 26 percent of the West Bank as “state land”. Using a different interpretation of Ottoman, British and Jordanian laws, Israel stole public and private Palestinian land for settlements under the pretext of “state land”.Nov 21, 2017
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/20...index.html
"On 10 September 2019 (shortly before the September 2019 Israeli legislative election) Netanyahu announced his government's plan to annex the Jordan Valley, if it won the election."

Israel is too expansionist in my eyes, too. I don't look at it with a religious scope, it's just the usual politics where countries seek to expand and seize land from other peoples. I never think that's ok, ever.