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Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
#1

Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
@jerry mcmasters

What do you owe to your society, what do you expect from it? We both work... 24 hr response is expected by me.
_____________________________________________________

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#2

Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
Late here and I have election coverage burn out at the moment, so let me address it tomorrow. I doubt this is something we'll have huge disagreement on? If you would like to go first feel free and I could see where I agree or disagree.
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#3

Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
You're probably right that we might agree more then we disagree, but I am a little confused now that I've seen you "like" some of the same posts as I in the "wow, really" thread, that talk about not posting things like mohamed cartoons that may have consequences for other people on the forum, when in another thread you seem to be saying that people can decide for themselves whether to wear a mask or not during a pandemic when that may have similar consequences on the lives of people around them.

These two positions seem to be in contradiction to me.

I mean earlier last week I stayed home and isolated myself from my work place for 4 days while my wife was undergoing testing for covid because because I felt a responsibility to not take a risk exposing my co-corkers in the event that she tested positive. I don't honestly know if I was legally obligated to do so I just did it. If there was a law that required me to do so, would you object to such a law.

BTW, just to let you know I found out that during the last test of my wife yesterday (along with all the other staff at her work) her test results came back at noon. She tested positive, we are all now in quarantine for 14 days. She tested negative last week, none of us have any symptoms (yet). That is why I do not find the enforcement of these mask rules to be too restrictive.

As for your "waiting for the fuhrer to tell me when you can cross the street (paraphrasing)" that's a little over the top no? We do in fact have laws against crossing streets when it is unsafe, as much to protect the pedestrian as the car that might hit them swerving to avoid them and crashing.

Deep in my heart I am a bit of an anarchist, but in a good way I feel that if people were all well educated we would not need laws, we would use our own common sense to guide our actions. That would be the most perfect world, but such a world is not possible and so we need laws & enforcement of them to protect us from the.... dumbest of us.
_____________________________________________________

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#4

Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
(11-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Unsapien Wrote: You're probably right that we might agree more then we disagree, but I am a little confused now that I've seen you "like" some of the same posts as I in the "wow, really" thread, that talk about not posting things like mohamed cartoons that may have consequences for other people on the forum, when in another thread you seem to be saying that people can decide for themselves whether to wear a mask or not during a pandemic when that may have similar consequences on the lives of people around them.
 
These two positions seem to be in contradiction to me.
 
I see how that looks like a contradiction so I’ll just explain each and maybe it still will be.  The cartoon thing is just basic common sense and respect for others.  That is clearly a case of one’s actions potentially harming someone who didn’t bargain on or want that potential; my position is that the cartoon drawing is just a different breed of cat than run of the mill printed satire and writing.  Seems reality bears that out, unless one of us is secretly Salman Rushdie.
 
The context of the mask issue from the thread was not that I think people should not wear masks, or that their freedom is more important than the risk, or that masks don’t work, or something like that.  Biden being a good lead-by-example guy was the context.  In that context, I scoff a bit that grown ups are to be inspired by his example (in Nov 2020!) into wearing masks.  I mean I get it, it may save the life of a cinderblock-headed person or two, but I don’t have to have any particular respect for such individuals nor do I have to pretend it’s some important policy of Biden’s.
 
(11-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Unsapien Wrote: I mean earlier last week I stayed home and isolated myself from my work place for 4 days while my wife was undergoing testing for covid because because I felt a responsibility to not take a risk exposing my co-corkers in the event that she tested positive. I don't honestly know if I was legally obligated to do so I just did it. If there was a law that required me to do so, would you object to such a law.
 
I would accept such a law, as well as mandates for masks.  I would want them to align with science and common sense, but I know policy decisions are difficult and there are costs and benefits to different Covid-fighting policies.  In the case of Biden, I’m wondering what the policy is.  Are we to imagine there is something new and better than what’s going on now in the U.S.?  Fed-mandated mask wearing, nationwide?  I know he answered some questions and was emphatic about “I would talk to the Governors!  I would talk to the Mayors!  And I would Eduheathgruuunn.  Come on, man.”  So I didn’t catch what the plan actually is.  Maybe federally mandated and enforced restrictions is the plan and maybe it is a good plan, but it seemed like a big bluff.
 
Please note I’m not saying people have “the right” to not wear masks where they legally should be, nor should they not be punished if they, maskless, get in somebody’s face.  Laws and enforcement, yes, presidential role modeling, yuch.
 
(11-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Unsapien Wrote: BTW, just to let you know I found out that during the last test of my wife yesterday (along with all the other staff at her work) her test results came back at noon. She tested positive, we are all now in quarantine for 14 days. She tested negative last week, none of us have any symptoms (yet). That is why I do not find the enforcement of these mask rules to be too restrictive.

As for your "waiting for the fuhrer to tell me when you can cross the street (paraphrasing)" that's a little over the top no? We do in fact have laws against crossing streets when it is unsafe, as much to protect the pedestrian as the car that might hit them swerving to avoid them and crashing.
 
Best wishes to you and the family and definitely hope all turns out well.
 
Yes of course that wording was over the top.  I wouldn’t enjoy being here if I didn’t express myself in a way that amuses me.  Unpopular political opinions are going to be purposely misrepresented no matter how carefully and humorlessly you word them, so might as well enjoy yourself and have fun.
 
(11-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Unsapien Wrote: Deep in my heart I am a bit of an anarchist, but in a good way I feel that if people were all well educated we would not need laws, we would use our own common sense to guide our actions. That would be the most perfect world, but such a world is not possible and so we need laws & enforcement of them to protect us from the.... dumbest of us.
 
Agreed.  Until then I guess Biden should make sure he wears his mask to lead by example so the Trump diehards will…wear their masks too?  Lol.
 
We can return in a bit to some of the broader issues in the OP if you like, or proceed however you like.
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#5

Individual responsiblility VS Social Responsibilty
Okay I think I might see where you're going with your answers.

Our pandemic rules, bylaws etc are directed by our public health officials, not our politicians. They are not elected, they are professional health workers, federally, provincially, regionally, so if I'm reading you right, you're objection may stem from the the fact that many of the decisions made on both sides of the pandemic debate in the US are political and not science based. Whether they're correct or not, was not the issue for you.

That is the difference, the decisions made by say the forum admin here are experience based, not politically based, no inner clique as it were, like I've seen talked about at AF.

So if I've understood you correctly then, well we agree.

If so let me know and see if there is anything else we can possibly talk about like what you'd consider a reasonable restriction on any given individual right for the good of society.

Nothing bad has ever happened talking about gun rights or abortion. Tongue
_____________________________________________________

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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