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UFOs: No Longer Crazy?

UFOs: No Longer Crazy?
(01-24-2021, 02:14 AM)Free Wrote:
(01-24-2021, 12:25 AM)mordant Wrote:
(01-23-2021, 06:00 PM)Free Wrote: My personal view of a non-earthly intelligent lifeform is really not that much different than how we as humans would view an intellectually lower lifeform here on earth, such as a bird, or a mouse etc.

We do not really pay much attention to intellectually inferior lifeforms here on earth, so I would understand why an intellectually superior lifeform from somewhere else wouldn't be very interested in us. They may be interested in the planet due to its resources in the same way our ancestors were interested in North America. But if we can put our human vanity aside and consider that perhaps we are not all that and a bag of chips in the view of an intellectually superior species, then perhaps we can understand why they don't contact us if they visit this planet.

We are to them what a mouse is to us. Primitive. Uninteresting. And maybe a little scary.

We tend to look at the universe as some vast expanse of unknowns. But to an intellectually and technologically superior race, they may see the universe the way we see another nation here on earth. The universe to them is what earth is to us. Where we see a planet, they see an island in the very vast sea.

I suspect that they would have the same problems communicating with us as we do with a cat, or a dog, or even an aardvark. Basic math, or the counting of numbers would be the first attempt at communication, as well as some common symbols such as an arrow.

Although we would require absolute proof that they have visited this planet before we can make any positive claims, there still may be people among us who have experienced that absolute proof on a personal level, and thereby stand alone with their knowledge, requiring us to either accept or reject their claims.

But I think all of us here now acknowledge that considering the vastnesses of this universe and the fact that we can view planets orbiting other stars, the probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe would be so exceptionally high that it would make the improbability infinitely small. Our perspective is that the universe is "out there." But the reality is that it is also "in here." We are not separate from the universe; we are part of it. 

After all, we as humans on this planet earth represent the precedence of intelligent life existing in the universe. We are the example that it is true.

That is ... if we really are intelligent. Sometimes I have my doubts.

I pretty much agree with you, but in considering that there are countless planets around countless stars, you have some unknowns to reckon with:

1) Only a tiny percentage of them would support life. Exactly what percentage is uncertain.
2) We don't know whether life, where it appears, typically evolves as far and with as much variety as on Earth -- or how frequently.
3) On the tiny percentage of planets that support life, and the tiny percentage of those planets where sentient / intelligent live evolves, we don't know how many get past various evolutionary "hard stops" or how many there are. Maybe we have almost reached ours -- our technology outstripping our wisdom. As such, maybe sentient life advanced enough to be interstellar is very rare, on the order of say 2 or 3 such civilizations in the whole galaxy.
4) Then you have to contend with whether such civilizations last a long enough time that their influence and activity overlap with us. Even a relatively successful intelligent life form might have a shelf-life of 100,000 years and the other ones in this galaxy already came and went or have yet to arise.
5) Then there's the whole problem of how varied life is and whether we'd recognize it or whether other sentient beings would find it worthwhile to explore the interstellar void for any reason. It's plausible that interstellar travel would be too resource-intensive to be pursued for obtaining resources or expanding territory, or for mere exploration. It's not a given that every species would even have that form of scientific curiosity to motivate them.

So you can be 100% correct in all that you said, but the odds of us detecting or encountering or being encountered by other civilizations or the remnants thereof could still be vanishingly small, especially given the great distances involved.

You could be correct, but I think that depends on all things being equal throughout the universe, and I doubt that is likely.

For example, the hominidae genus that we belong to has been around for some 15 - 20 million years, existing on a planet that is about 4 billion years old. Our evolutionary path may actually be very short compared to some other species from another planet. They could be billions of years ahead of us both on the evolutionary path, as well as the intellectual and technological development path.

How we measure distance and how to travel it may be quite meaningless to them, or at the very least, exceptionally primitive. Where we tend to look at a straight line as being the shortest distance between two points, they may not see distance at all, or if so, they perhaps don't see it as an obstacle to travelling.

If they have billions of years of evolution behind them, they would undoubtedly have developed technologies so intellectually superior that we as humans simply do not have the intellectual development to even imagine, let alone grasp. 

We once believed that nothing moves faster than light. Yet with space expansion, two points can be moved away from each other much faster than the speed of light. Therefore, if space was to be condensed, two points could be moved closer together faster than the speed of light. In this hypothetical scenario, a single point in space could traverse billions of light years in an instant, if a technology was developed that could manipulate space in this way.

We are still learning, and we always will learn more, as we also evolve to become more than what we currently are. It's just the nature of things.
Good points.

The speed of light is a relative limit, not an absolute one. The light traveling in one direction is at a speed relative to its source, not to the light that same source is emitting in the opposite direction. Photons emitted in opposite directions are not breaking the limit, anymore than two cars driving away from each other at 60 mph are exceeding the 60 mph speed limit on that road. There's still a limit on any one car heading to any one destination.

I am not saying, however, that FTL travel is impossible. The Alcubierre Drive represents actual research in that regard, and the theoretical mathematics have been laid down for it pretty well, actually. We simply don't know how to turn it into actual tech at this point, and may not for quite possibly centuries. It would require exotic materials we don't yet know how to make, and has significant practical problems to overcome, not least that when returning to normal space, everything for some considerable distance ahead of such a ship would be vaporized. Initially it was also inherently impractical from an energy requirement standpoint, but that problem has been worked out in the theoretical space after a few years of effort.

My comments about time overlap was talking about the likely active timespan of a species once it becomes spacefaring, much less interstellar. We aren't there yet. Others may not be to the level of language or agriculture. Others may have come and gone already. IF there are only a handful of such sentient species that get that far in any one galaxy, the odds of encountering one at this moment in time, that is (1) active at the same time and (2) either of us detects the other, are not necessarily that great.

Of course, whether we'd know HOW to detect them or even recognize some forms of intelligence at all, is indeed another way we might not see them. Which is kind of the point of the whole 'Oumuamua thing.
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UFOs: No Longer Crazy?
Well it was Florida.


Quote:Floridians mistake Trident submarine missile launch for UFO

Technically it was "unidentified" for a while and it was definitely flying and it was an "object."

I wonder how many morons will now insist that the Navy is lying and we were invaded by Martians?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”

UFOs: No Longer Crazy?
Freedom isn't free.

UFOs: No Longer Crazy?
Remind the "Space Squid" over SoCal a few years back? Same thing.
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