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#51

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(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:43 PM)Assassin Wrote: You can't claim to have good intentions for the forum and simultaneously threaten to shut it down. That's a red flag and contradictory. You won't get to help now. Probably best to just drop it.

I can when I have exhausted all options that don't involve 'threats.' Did you read the timeline of what happened?

And no, I assure you I won't drop it. Not until the site has been properly secured.

Yeah I read it. It reads as:

"take your vitamins because they're good for you and I care about your life... well, you still havent taken your vitamins. Time to die, guess I'll have to kill you myself."
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#52

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(01-23-2019, 10:47 PM)Assassin Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:43 PM)Assassin Wrote: You can't claim to have good intentions for the forum and simultaneously threaten to shut it down. That's a red flag and contradictory. You won't get to help now. Probably best to just drop it.

I can when I have exhausted all options that don't involve 'threats.' Did you read the timeline of what happened?

And no, I assure you I won't drop it. Not until the site has been properly secured.

Yeah I read it. It reads as:

"take your vitamins because they're good for you and I care about your life... well, you still havent taken your vitamins. Time to die, guess I'll have to kill you myself."

As amusing as that analogy is, I see it more like this...

Me: You have to get vaccinated.

Admins: No, I don't want to.

Me: No, really, you have to get vaccinated, otherwise you'll get sick.

Admins: But I don't want to!

Me: If you don't come along quietly, I'm gonna have to drag you to the hospital and force them to vaccinate you.

Admins: You're a big meanie! Screw you!

Me: Have it your way. *calls the hospital*
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#53

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(01-23-2019, 10:21 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 09:40 PM)julep Wrote: However, you still seem to be saying, do this my way or I'm going to destroy you.

Well, you need to know the history to understand why I'm doing it the way I'm doing it. Here's a quick recap of what happened, as told from my perspective:

Me: Hey admins, I just wanted to let you know that the site is not properly secured right now. This not only makes us a highly vulnerable target for malicious hackers, it could also get us into legal trouble because we're not compliant with GDPR regulations right now. I would gladly offer you my expertise and help you secure the site so we can make sure that people's private information is safe and remains confidential.

Admins: Hey Vosur, thank you for the kind offer! We're a little busy with getting things set up right now, but we'll definitely reach out to you once we have some time.

*several months pass in which I try over and over again to set up a meeting to get this done *

Me: Hey admins, I'm really disappointed that nothing has come to fruition despite all of my attempts at setting up a meeting between us. Let me reassure you that we can get this done in a single afternoon so we don't need to set aside much time for it. That said, I feel like you are not taking this matter as seriously as I am and that really bums me out. You keep delaying things for seemingly no reason.

Admins: Rest assured that we will get it done, life has just been a bitch lately and I've been sick on top of that.

Me: Fair enough, thank you for the explanation. I wish you had told me this earlier. I will wait for you to let me know when you're ready.

*another months or so passes*

The Forum: *gets DDoSed*

Admins: So it turns out that we can read all of your PMs, but we pinky promise that we're not going to read them.

Me: Since we're getting DDoSed, we should set up the site with Cloudflare, which takes literally fives minutes and would also take care of properly securing the forum. Just give me the accesses I need and I'll get it done right away.

Admins: *takes no action*

Me: Why aren't you doing it? What's with the unnecessary delays and excuses? Just get it done.

Admins: You're not the boss of me!

Me: Hey admins, final warning. I have tried my best to get this done but I can see now that it's not going to happen anytime soon under this leadership. You have until next week to get this done, otherwise I will do everything in my power to compel you to do so.

Admins: You're threatening us so you're our enemy now. Mathilda is still sick, that's why we haven't done it yet. The DDoSes are also stressing her out, so she needs to recover from that as well.

Me: That makes no sense at all. Just give me the accesses I need and I'll do it. Heck, if you want, you can do it instead of Mathilda, I'll even walk you through the process.

Admins: You're a big meanie who threatened us so you're gonna have to go to law enforcement to get me to do it.

I hope that helps put things into context.

If the admins disagree with my portrayal of what happened, I'd love to see their version. I tried to be as fair to them as possible under the circumstances.

Give you the accesses, based on your self-proclaimed expertise and good intentions?   

The good intentions you're demonstrating here, making threats based on a nonsense issue of admins possibly being able to view PMs, if they suddenly decided to Big Brother us all?  

I understand that you may feel offended that your idea got--not even a no, just a not now.  Don't let the frustration turn you into that guy at the bar yelling "fuck you!"  You seem a little close to that edge at the moment.
god, ugh
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#54

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(01-23-2019, 10:51 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:47 PM)Assassin Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)Vosur Wrote: I can when I have exhausted all options that don't involve 'threats.' Did you read the timeline of what happened?

And no, I assure you I won't drop it. Not until the site has been properly secured.

Yeah I read it. It reads as:

"take your vitamins because they're good for you and I care about your life... well, you still havent taken your vitamins. Time to die, guess I'll have to kill you myself."

As amusing as that analogy is, I see it more like this...

Me: You have to get vaccinated.

Admins: No, I don't want to.

Me: No, really, you have to get vaccinated, otherwise you'll get sick.

Admins: But I don't want to!

Me: If you don't come along quietly, I'm gonna have to drag you to the hospital and force them to vaccinate you.

Admins: You're a big meanie! Screw you!

Me: Have it your way. *calls the hospital*

Probably more accurate, but you left out the part where you want to kill and start new. 

One of the points you made was that hackers could access the topics in the support thread. I thought anyone with an account could. And implementing the secure thing won't change that. Or am I missing something.
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#55

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(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: Give you the accesses, based on your self-proclaimed expertise and good intentions?

Please, don't insult me. My expertise is a record of public knowledge (see my LinkedIn profile) and my personal website is evidence that I know how to properly secure a site. Besides, like I said, I was fine with walking Alize through the process. I didn't need access, it would only have sped things up.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: The good intentions you're demonstrating here, making threats based on a nonsense issue of admins possibly being able to view PMs, if they suddenly decided to Big Brother us all?

No, not "possibly." The admins can read our PMs. I don't believe that any of the current admins would abuse that power, but that's not the point. If the site was hacked, whoever gained access to it would most certainly take an interest in reading your PMs. It's not a nonsense issue. Do you realize that this is a very real possibility when you leave your site unsecured? It has happened to many a forum in the past.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: I understand that you may feel offended that your idea got--not even a no, just a not now.  Don't let the frustration turn you into that guy at the bar yelling "fuck you!"  You seem a little close to that edge at the moment.

I'm not offended, I'm disappointed. I thought better of the admins as people before this incident. I thought that if I explained the importance of this issue, they would listen to me, but all my efforts were in vain. I'm really bummed out by all this. I never wanted things to get this far, believe me. Of course I don't actually want this forum to be shut down, but the admins have forced my hand. They've left me no choice but to use the nuclear option.
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#56

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(01-23-2019, 11:12 PM)Assassin Wrote: Probably more accurate, but you left out the part where you want to kill and start new.

Quite frankly, I don't want the forum to be shut down and start from scratch. The legal threats were meant to force the admins into compliance and only shut down the forum if they refused to comply even after receiving an order to do so from the authorities. I hope that it will never even get that far and that they will finally see reason before everything implodes.

(01-23-2019, 11:12 PM)Assassin Wrote: One of the points you made was that hackers could access the topics in the support thread. I thought anyone with an account could. And implementing the secure thing won't change that. Or am I missing something.

I probably should have expanded on that. When people post in that section, it always leads to people offering to talk about their problems via PM, which ties back into the issue with PMs not really being private after all.
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#57

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(01-23-2019, 11:18 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: Give you the accesses, based on your self-proclaimed expertise and good intentions?

Please, don't insult me. My expertise is a record of public knowledge (see my LinkedIn profile) and my personal website is evidence that I know how to properly secure a site. Besides, like I said, I was fine with walking Alize through the process. I didn't need access, it would only have sped things up.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: The good intentions you're demonstrating here, making threats based on a nonsense issue of admins possibly being able to view PMs, if they suddenly decided to Big Brother us all?

No, not "possibly." The admins can read our PMs. I don't believe that any of the current admins would abuse that power, but that's not the point. If the site was hacked, whoever gained access to it would most certainly take an interest in reading your PMs. It's not a nonsense issue. Do you realize that this is a very real possibility when you leave your site unsecured? It has happened to many a forum in the past.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: I understand that you may feel offended that your idea got--not even a no, just a not now.  Don't let the frustration turn you into that guy at the bar yelling "fuck you!"  You seem a little close to that edge at the moment.

I'm not offended, I'm disappointed. I thought better of the admins as people before this incident. I thought that if I explained the importance of this issue, they would listen to me, but all my efforts were in vain. I'm really bummed out by all this. I never wanted things to get this far, believe me. Of course I don't actually want this forum to be shut down, but the admins have forced my hand. They've left me no choice but to use the nuclear option.

I don't understand. If you're not happy with the forum, why you don't just leave? No one is compelling you to be here.
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#58

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(01-23-2019, 11:23 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't understand. If you're not happy with the forum, why you don't just leave? No one is compelling you to be here.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I've spent the better part of the last five years forming numerous friendships with people in this community and made it my home. I don't want to leave because that would mean losing this community.
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#59

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(01-23-2019, 11:18 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: Give you the accesses, based on your self-proclaimed expertise and good intentions?

Please, don't insult me. My expertise is a record of public knowledge (see my LinkedIn profile) and my personal website is evidence that I know how to properly secure a site. Besides, like I said, I was fine with walking Alize through the process. I didn't need access, it would only have sped things up.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: The good intentions you're demonstrating here, making threats based on a nonsense issue of admins possibly being able to view PMs, if they suddenly decided to Big Brother us all?

No, not "possibly." The admins can read our PMs. I don't believe that any of the current admins would abuse that power, but that's not the point. If the site was hacked, whoever gained access to it would most certainly take an interest in reading your PMs. It's not a nonsense issue. Do you realize that this is a very real possibility when you leave your site unsecured? It has happened to many a forum in the past.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: I understand that you may feel offended that your idea got--not even a no, just a not now.  Don't let the frustration turn you into that guy at the bar yelling "fuck you!"  You seem a little close to that edge at the moment.

I'm not offended, I'm disappointed. I thought better of the admins as people before this incident. I thought that if I explained the importance of this issue, they would listen to me, but all my efforts were in vain. I'm really bummed out by all this. I never wanted things to get this far, believe me. Of course I don't actually want this forum to be shut down, but the admins have forced my hand. They've left me no choice but to use the nuclear option.

Actually, we can't read PMs unless we go out of our way to find a special solution. The software doesn't come with that ability set.

Pms are just that - private messages. They are private. They are also not to be posted here in the forum unless everyone in the conversation wants to for some reason.


Why would anyone want to read PMs anyway? Must be a boring life and a boring forum.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#60

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(01-23-2019, 11:18 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: Give you the accesses, based on your self-proclaimed expertise and good intentions?

Please, don't insult me. My expertise is a record of public knowledge (see my LinkedIn profile) and my personal website is evidence that I know how to properly secure a site. Besides, like I said, I was fine with walking Alize through the process. I didn't need access, it would only have sped things up.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: The good intentions you're demonstrating here, making threats based on a nonsense issue of admins possibly being able to view PMs, if they suddenly decided to Big Brother us all?

No, not "possibly." The admins can read our PMs. I don't believe that any of the current admins would abuse that power, but that's not the point. If the site was hacked, whoever gained access to it would most certainly take an interest in reading your PMs. It's not a nonsense issue. Do you realize that this is a very real possibility when you leave your site unsecured? It has happened to many a forum in the past.

(01-23-2019, 11:10 PM)julep Wrote: I understand that you may feel offended that your idea got--not even a no, just a not now.  Don't let the frustration turn you into that guy at the bar yelling "fuck you!"  You seem a little close to that edge at the moment.

I'm not offended, I'm disappointed. I thought better of the admins as people before this incident. I thought that if I explained the importance of this issue, they would listen to me, but all my efforts were in vain. I'm really bummed out by all this. I never wanted things to get this far, believe me. Of course I don't actually want this forum to be shut down, but the admins have forced my hand. They've left me no choice but to use the nuclear option.
You’ve clarified perfectly.   

I guess we have our first official forum villain.   plotting
god, ugh
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#61

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(01-23-2019, 11:27 PM)julep Wrote: I guess we have our first official forum villain.   plotting

I guess I'm gonna have to come up with a cool-sounding villain name and costume. Chuckle
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#62

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(01-23-2019, 11:27 PM)julep Wrote: You’ve clarified perfectly.   

I guess we have our first official forum villain.   plotting

[Image: ThornyScaredKob-size_restricted.gif]
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#63

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(01-23-2019, 11:26 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:23 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't understand. If you're not happy with the forum, why you don't just leave? No one is compelling you to be here.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I've spent the better part of the last five years forming numerous friendships with people in this community and made it my home. I don't want to leave because that would mean losing this community.

And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love. I wouldn't count on this being a two-way street for much longer on your current trajectory... and no, that isn't a threat. It's just that if you're taking legal action against us, this is possibly the cost.  

If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home. 

It just seems like common sense to me.  Dunno
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#64

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(01-23-2019, 10:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 09:40 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 09:38 PM)Aliza Wrote: We cannot see your PMs easily. It would take jumping through hoops and exposing ourselves to private information that we have pledged to not access without good cause. If I had a warrant or if someone made an RL threat, we could respond to that, but other than that, private means private.

Well, that sucks, because that's going to give Vosur more of a reason to proceed with this trying to get AD shut down nonsense, then.

The fact that Admins are capable of seeing my PMs (regardless of hoop-jumping or giving of word/swearing on the Bible, etc)... does make me feel like they're not private.

If people want privacy ... I don't think an internet forum is ever the best place.

When I came here, I generally familiarized myself with the EU's fuck-nutty data laws. We don't use your personal data, we don't know your addresses, your payment information, or if the birthday you supplied (if you supplied one) is accurate. We don't email you unless you request us to. We don't even check your email addresses to see if they're valid. We don't have your names!

What you post is public. What's private is marked as such and you can download your own private threads or messages there and hopefully be assured that we're not snooping around in your business.  If we have a data breach, we'll be honest about that and inform you.

We sell absolutely nothing, we have no method of collecting money, we are providing no information to third parties... we're just a social club and we require no identifying information about you at all. I think that's pretty special in today's day and age where everyone wants a piece of you. When you go to most forums on the internet, it's mostly just about socializing and being free to be as authentic as you like without some asshole company trying to sell you something.

I agree with all of this ... I'll only point out that not everyone knows how lovely the staff are so not everyone can trust that the staff won't look at their PMs.

This is why I take the approach that PMs aren't truly private anyway.

Which gets us even more off the hook as far as I'm concerned ... no truly private data is truly being managed here ... so how the fuck could you be reckless with it? We disclose our personal info at our own peril, regardless of the honorable intentions of the staff. I don't see any responsibility with anyone other than the people who wish to disclose their personal business.

But maybe I'm an idiot. I'm someone who doxes myself upon first meeting a stranger (literally, I just don't tell people my real name or give them my address, I'm more than happy to tell them my life story, my psychotic episode, my abusive father, my sucide attempt, etc) ... so I consider myself pretty much undoxable. So maybe I'm too alien to relate to this "Oh noes! I told them about my genital rash in a PM!" shtick.






P.S. I'd like to inform everyone that that was a random hypothetical humorous example and I don't actually have a genital rash. But if I did ... don't worry, everyone would definitely hear about it upon first meeting me Thumbs Up.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#65

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(01-23-2019, 10:30 PM)Dom Wrote: We can read PMs? That's news to me. I thought that function wasn't activated (if there is one) and there is no plug in used. From my understanding one would have to install a plug in to do so, and we chose not to. AF has it, we don't. TTA didn't have it either as far as I know.

So, basically ... this means that the Staff don't even hold any unimportant private data let alone important private data so this whole data breach thing makes zero sense to me.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#66

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(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love.

No, I'm trying to get you to secure the site. It will only be shut down and restarted from scratch if and only if you're unwilling to secure the site.

(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: I wouldn't count on this being a two-way street for much longer on your current trajectory... and no, that isn't a threat. It's just that if you're taking legal action against us.  

If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home. 

It just seems like common sense to me.  Dunno

Sure sounds like a threat to me. There's nothing worse than a petty, vindictive admin, is there? And here I thought you couldn't disappoint me any more than you have in the past few months. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#67

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(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 10:30 PM)Dom Wrote: We can read PMs? That's news to me. I thought that function wasn't activated (if there is one) and there is no plug in used. From my understanding one would have to install a plug in to do so, and we chose not to. AF has it, we don't. TTA didn't have it either as far as I know.

I don't know that AF has it... I would hope not. Jeesh.

They do, unfortunately. I've witnessed it in their staff area. It means "private PMs" are a misnomer over there.

(Apologies, I thought that that was the norm for all forums. I had absolutely no idea AF was just extra weird and creepy. My opinion of AF has gone down even further now lol).
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#68

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(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home.

Something tells me that you're the kind of person who would fire a construction worker for reporting you, his boss, to OSHA because you don't take the health of your workers seriously and require them to work without safety equipment.

Or maybe you're the kind of person who would kick someone out of the Church for exposing the pedophiles among the priests. Chuckle
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#69

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(01-23-2019, 11:37 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love.

No, I'm trying to get you to secure the site. It will only be shut down and restarted from scratch if and only if you're unwilling to secure the site.

(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: I wouldn't count on this being a two-way street for much longer on your current trajectory... and no, that isn't a threat. It's just that if you're taking legal action against us.  

If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home. 

It just seems like common sense to me.  Dunno

Sure sounds like a threat to me. There's nothing worse than a petty, vindictive admin, is there? And here I thought you couldn't disappoint me any more than you have in the past few months. Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Include that in your report to the EU.
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#70

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(01-23-2019, 11:37 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love.

No, I'm trying to get you to secure the site. It will only be shut down and restarted from scratch if and only if you're unwilling to secure the site.

Um, who the heck do you think you are? 
Seems like you called yourself altruistic up thread. For who's benefit are you behaving like this? Not mine. I didn't give you permission to speak for me.  If it's for your own benefit, you don't know what altruism is.

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#71

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(01-23-2019, 11:37 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: It means "private PMs" are a misnomer over there.

Edit: I meant, of course, PMs or private Ms. Not Private PMs. That would be PPMs. Or Private Private Messages. Too tautological for a Wednesday night.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#72

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(01-23-2019, 11:43 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:37 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love.

No, I'm trying to get you to secure the site. It will only be shut down and restarted from scratch if and only if you're unwilling to secure the site.

Um, who the heck do you think you are? 
Seems like you called yourself altruistic up thread. For who's benefit are you behaving like this? Not mine. I didn't give you permission to speak for me.  If it's for your own benefit, you don't know what altruism is.

-Teresa

You may not believe that I'm acting for your benefit, but that doesn't make it true. I don't need your permission to state facts. I want your PMs to be as private as anyone's. That's a fact.
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#73

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(01-23-2019, 11:41 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home.

Something tells me that you're the kind of person who would fire a construction worker for reporting you, his boss, to OSHA because you don't take the health of your workers seriously and require them to work without safety equipment.

Or maybe you're the kind of person who would kick someone out of the Church for exposing the pedophiles among the priests. Chuckle

I would consider firing the construction worker if he threatened me. Yes. If he ran through the construction zone with spray paint and mucked the whole place up... we're gonna have a problem. 

Reporting to the proper authorities I have no problem with. I'm not afraid of being held accountable to impartial government officials who are trained to evaluate the worthiness of our forum. I'll comply with their requirements, as I've stated.
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#74

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(01-23-2019, 11:42 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:37 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: And by your own admission, you're trying to have it shut down by the EU. That's not exactly showing us the love.

No, I'm trying to get you to secure the site. It will only be shut down and restarted from scratch if and only if you're unwilling to secure the site.

(01-23-2019, 11:33 PM)Aliza Wrote: I wouldn't count on this being a two-way street for much longer on your current trajectory... and no, that isn't a threat. It's just that if you're taking legal action against us.  

If I go to my friend's house and threaten to have it condemned on the grounds that the house is made of wood instead of cinderblock, then I might well find myself uninvited to my friend's home. 

It just seems like common sense to me.  Dunno

Sure sounds like a threat to me. There's nothing worse than a petty, vindictive admin, is there? And here I thought you couldn't disappoint me any more than you have in the past few months. Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Include that in your report to the EU.

He should also remember to say that he's so deeply offended and scarred by the whole enterprise that he almost even considered writing a stern letter to his MP.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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(01-23-2019, 11:30 PM)Vosur Wrote:
(01-23-2019, 11:27 PM)julep Wrote: I guess we have our first official forum villain.   plotting

I guess I'm gonna have to come up with a cool-sounding villain name and costume. Chuckle

That’s an idea.  I’d be happy to vote on some choices!  I’m thinking blue, gold, white as a color scheme?  

Speaking of a vote, why not make a post and a poll, see how many AD members will be willing to follow to a forum site owned by you?
god, ugh
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