The Lives of the Prophet and Fatima and the Twelve Successors.

[SYZ]

Not sure if this is the right section. But this viewpoint will be from a Shiite Muslim historical perspective.

I understood that this particular forum was more about discussing legitimate "history" and its
ramifications across the wider world—but not for promoting religious fantasy fiction—in this case
the theology of Twelver Shias and the principles of the Shia Islamic religion.

According to the Adalah, the fictional character Allah commands Shias to do only good things
and forbids any evil things.  Well, current Shia–Sunni relations have certainly disproved that
load of bullshit.      Islam as the religion of peace my fucking arse!

[Link]

Viewpoint 1st Successor.

A battle is ensued against a group of Muslims who are fighting the government who the leader of Shiites is now the head of.  The Leader of the Shiites and his army are about to win.  But a cunning ploy is done by their opponents, in which they raised the Quran on their spears, and chant to let the Quran judge between them.  A great portion of the army headed by the Leader of Shiites don't follow the Leader's commands to finish them off.   Instead, they begin to debate about Quran, in which they didn't even follow the Leader's choice of who knows the Quran well enough to debate.  The result is a group of followers of the Leader break off and their slogan becomes only God is the Ruler.

Is the Quran a guidance? If it is why didn't it guide them? And why didn't the followers obey their Leader?

[Link]

Viewpoint 1st Successor

A series of speeches trying to encourage his followers to fight on his side are done. Among them is the following warning them of the results that would occur if they continue their path of weakness:


In the company of the Prophet of Allah (S) we used to fight our parents, sons, brothers and uncles, and this continued us in our faith, in submission, in our following the right path, in endurance over the pangs of pain and in our fight against the enemy.

A man from our side and one from the enemy would pounce upon each other like energetic men contesting as to who would kill the other; sometime our man got over his adversary and some-time the enemy's man got over ours.

When Allah had observed our truth, He sent ignominy to our foe and sent His succour to us till Islam got established (like the camel) with neck on the ground and resting in its place. By my life, if we had also behaved like you, no pillar of (our) religion could have been raised, nor could the tree of faith have borne leaves. By Allah, certainly you will now milk our blood (instead of milk) and eventually you will face shame.

[Alan V]

Yes, people used to believe strange things. The question is why this still concerns so many people, who should now know better.

More specifically, you should ask yourself whether these preoccupations are appropriate for an atheist discussion forum. Are you asking us questions about matters of little concern to us, or do you just want to get banned? It seems like very strange behavior in any case.

[Link]

Okay I'll stop.

[Mark]

Sounds like the title of one of the Harry Potter movies.

[Minimalist]

I understood that this particular forum was more about discussing legitimate "history" and its
ramifications across the wider world

Yes, but remember Napoleon's observation:  "History is a lie agreed upon."

[Dancefortwo]

Viewpoint 3rd Successor

While there was still hope, the Leader of the Shiites delivers this speech:

 

"Tedious Prophet Book of Cyril:  And there shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, and there will be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base, that has an attachment…at this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before around eight o’clock.."

[TheGentlemanBastard]

I see MK has returned to spam the board further. His bullshit apparently knows no bounds. I wonder, though, will he actually engage in any meaningful way with his audience, or will he once again preach from on high (or while high).

[Link]

Okay I'll stop.

[skyking]

OK

[TheGentlemanBastard]

You've said it before MK. Why should we believe it now?

[SYZ]

Okay I'll stop.

Even better... why don't you just fuck off.    

[Cheerful Charlie]

The battle of the Shiites, Twelvers vs Seveners. Where is the hidden Mahdi hiding? When will that hidden Mahdi return? The fate of the entire universe hinges on this extremely important debate.

[Cavebear]

All theisms have schisms. They are MAJOR with the theism, but oddly meaningless to those outside of it. I was mostly exposed to Christianity, and the difference of the trinity vs Jesus seems unimportant. I imagine that I would say the same about Moslem Shiism vs Sunni. And I suppose there are equal arguments among Hindus and among Jews.

But why does anyone care? Its all about nothing. Swift lampooned it best with the "which end of the egg to break?" Its is mountains out of molehills.

[Cheerful Charlie]

Seventh Imam vs Twelth Imam? Trinitarians vs Non-Trinitarians? Orthodox vs Cathploic. Sunni vs Shiite? back to my thread on Scientific Theology. Or Scientific Christianity. Scientific Islam? What tests could settle these issues? Will the next 1000 years grunting and shrieking about these issues decide anything any better than the last 1000 years with no commitment to testing?

[Cavebear]

Seventh Imam vs Twelth Imam?  Trinitarians vs Non-Trinitarians?  Orthodox vs Cathploic.  Sunni vs Shiite?  back to my thread on Scientific Theology.  Or Scientific Christianity.  Scientific Islam?  What tests could settle these issues?  Will the next 1000 years grunting and shrieking about these issues decide anything any better than the last 1000 years with no commitment to testing?

Nothing settles theistic arguments.  They come from nothing and therefore cannot be resolved.  A fair arbitrator could examine all issues and resolve nothing to anyone's satisfaction.  How many angels could dance on a pin?  "Define the size of an angel".  Are the proper Moslem leaders the lineage of Mohhamed or the religious leaders from him.  Unresolvable; basically you have 2 theisms there.  Has the Jewish Messiah come?  Ask the Christians and the Jews.  Same problem.