Boeing 737 Lax

[Inkubus]

This happened at 16,000ft:



If the thing was at cruising altitude the side of the plane would have blown out, not just a panel.
Lets hope whatever happened is unique to this particular plane and not an endemic fault with the whole fleet. But then I would be well pleased if Boeing went bust and was broken up. Remember this shit:

Boeing’s employees chose the path of profit over candor by concealing material information from the FAA concerning the operation of its 737 Max airplane and engaging in an effort to cover up their deception.Link

[Minimalist]

That can't be good.

[1Sam15]

Still haven’t heard where the panel ended up

[airportkid]

That doesn't look like a 737 problem; it looks like a maintenance problem that could have happened to any jet with a fuselage portal (which is all of them).  The very first thing to examine with an incident like this are the logs, to find the inspections or maintenance actions that would have affected that portal.  A cursory review of articles about the incident show that this particular portal was a disabled (on purpose) auxiliary emergency exit.  It could be that during an inspection procedure that exit was opened up, and then simply not properly closed up.  That's speculation, but whatever the cause, I think it dangerously misguided to think it was strictly a 737 problem, kind of like there were some bank robberies where one of the robbers wore a plaid shirt, so customers wearing plaid are now perceived as dangerous.

Give some thought to just how rigorously safe flying by airliner is, so that a mechanically minor occurrence like this is national news, it's so uncommon, and even though there could have been severe repercussions, no one was injured.  Every day traffic accidents and (in the USA) murder by guns extinguish dozens of lives but are so common society just treats it as acceptable, not worth a raised eyebrow.  We are very much a species enthralled by spectacle, but not much sense.

[Inkubus]

That doesn't look like a 737 problem; it looks like a maintenance problem that could have happened to any jet with a fuselage portal (which is all of them).  The very first thing to examine with an incident like this are the logs, to find the inspections or maintenance actions that would have affected that portal.  A cursory review of articles about the incident show that this particular portal was a disabled (on purpose) auxiliary emergency exit.  It could be that during an inspection procedure that exit was opened up, and then simply not properly closed up.  That's speculation, but whatever the cause, I think it dangerously misguided to think it was strictly a 737 problem, kind of like there were some bank robberies where one of the robbers wore a plaid shirt, so customers wearing plaid are now perceived as dangerous.

Give some thought to just how rigorously safe flying by airliner is, so that a mechanically minor occurrence like this is national news, it's so uncommon, and even though there could have been severe repercussions, no one was injured.  Every day traffic accidents and (in the USA) murder by guns extinguish dozens of lives but are so common society just treats it as acceptable, not worth a raised eyebrow.  We are very much a species enthralled by spectacle, but not much sense.

I didn't say it was.

[airportkid]

Lets hope whatever happened is unique to this particular plane and not an endemic fault with the whole fleet.

I think it dangerously misguided to think it was strictly a 737 problem

I didn't say it was.

You did.  But it appears the FAA is too, and I think that's a problem; the regulatory agency in charge is acting influenced by public perception.

[Minimalist]

Actually the FAA is required to investigate these types of situations.  There have been earlier incidents where it was found that the repeated pressurizations and de-pressurizations of aircraft cabins caused structural failures.  It's a factor of how old the aircraft happens to be as well as how many flights it has made.

Besides.....Boeing does not have exactly the best track record going.

[airportkid]

Actually the FAA is required to investigate these types of situations.  There have been earlier incidents where it was found that the repeated pressurizations and de-pressurizations of aircraft cabins caused structural failures.  It's a factor of how old the aircraft happens to be as well as how many flights it has made.

Of course.  But even as you say above, other considerations are more relevant that that it was a 737.

In any case the NTSB (a non-regulatory body) will conduct the most important aspects of the investigation, more free of political or popular perception influence than the FAA.  What could emerge is an Airworthiness Directive that mandates a change in design, a change in procedure, a retrofit, or other actions, which may extend beyond the 737 to other aircraft where the failures identified could potentially recur.

[Minimalist]

And that would be a good thing.

In fairness, considering the massive number of flights which happen each day, air safety for planes actually flying is pretty damn good in this country.

The thing to worry about is over-stressed, over-worked, sleep-deprived, and insufficient numbers of trained air traffic controllers.  Too many near misses lately and when one plane lands on top of another which is using the same runway the shit will really hit the fan.

[mordant]

And that would be a good thing.

In fairness, considering the massive number of flights which happen each day, air safety for planes actually flying is pretty damn good in this country.

The thing to worry about is over-stressed, over-worked, sleep-deprived, and insufficient numbers of trained air traffic controllers.  Too many near misses lately and when one plane lands on top of another which is using the same runway the shit will really hit the fan.

And that is what happened in Japan a couple of days ago ... or more exactly something similar to the Tenerife fiasco where one plane taking off collided with another taxiing across the runway. That may have been ground controller error or pilot error but in the end I think it will come down to human error somewhere. My money is on the pilot of the government aircraft taking off, rushing aid to some disaster locale related to the earthquake. Ironically the pilot was the lone survivor on that plane. All the rest of his crew died. I would not want to be that guy.

[Inkubus]

[quote="Inkubus" pid='415010' dateline='1704566018']
I didn't say it was.

You did.  But it appears the FAA is too, and I think that's a problem; the regulatory agency in charge is acting influenced by public perception.

Show me.

[airportkid]

... or more exactly something similar to the Tenerife fiasco where one plane taking off collided with another taxiing across the runway ...

Japan and Tenerife were not similar at all.

Somewhat off topic but the Tenerife disaster (to this day the single greatest air disaster of all time, killing almost 600 people in two 747s) was not a controller error.  Tenerife was a confluence of several bad factors, but distilled to its core was the impatient arrogance of the KLM captain, in a hurry because he was coming up against his duty time limit, who disdained even a pretense of caution in zero visibility and started his takeoff without clearance to do so and without positively confirming the runway was clear.  It wasn't.

The tragic irony is that the precipitating cause was a terrorist bomb (1 casualty) at Las Palmas that diverted many airliners to Tenerife, that put the two 747s into a proximity and situation that would never have otherwise occurred, whose collision killed hundreds more people than the bomb at Las Palmas.

[brewerb]

First thing I thought of.

Boeing 737-200, 24000 ft, 1988: https://www.faa.gov/lessons_learned/tran...nts/N73711

[pattylt]

First thing I thought of.

Boeing 737-200, 24000 ft, 1988: https://www.faa.gov/lessons_learned/tran...nts/N73711

I love how the report says, “The fuselage departed from the airplane” .  It makes it sound like it waved before it left!

[brewerb]

First thing I thought of.

Boeing 737-200, 24000 ft, 1988: https://www.faa.gov/lessons_learned/tran...nts/N73711

I love how the report says, “The fuselage departed from the airplane” .  It makes it sound like it waved before it left!

SNL skit now in my head, OK Buh Bye.

[airportkid]

... It makes it sound like it waved before it left ...!

It did.  Before tearing free the section oscillated in increasing deformations for a few milliseconds as the cracks rapidly propagated.  Were it filmed at high speed and then played back slowed down, it would look exactly as if it were waving bye bye in increasingly violent gestures before vanishing as a cloud of wind whipped fragments.  Don't think for a second the NTSB investigators weren't aware of what they were writing.

[rocinantexyz]

I'm assuming no one flew out of the hole?

[airportkid]

I'm assuming no one flew out of the hole?

Not the recent one, no.  The Aloha 737 lost a flight attendant.

[c172]

The fuselage just peaced out.

[1Sam15]

Still haven’t heard where the panel ended up

Today’s news finally mentioned finding the panel. Asking for the public to keep an eye out for it.

[brewerb]

I'm assuming no one flew out of the hole?

I sure that is a 'hole' joke in this butt it's to early.

Shit.

[mordant]

... or more exactly something similar to the Tenerife fiasco where one plane taking off collided with another taxiing across the runway ...

Japan and Tenerife were not similar at all.

Somewhat off topic but the Tenerife disaster (to this day the single greatest air disaster of all time, killing almost 600 people in two 747s) was not a controller error.  Tenerife was a confluence of several bad factors, but distilled to its core was the impatient arrogance of the KLM captain, in a hurry because he was coming up against his duty time limit, who disdained even a pretense of caution in zero visibility and started his takeoff without clearance to do so and without positively confirming the runway was clear.  It wasn't.

The tragic irony is that the precipitating cause was a terrorist bomb (1 casualty) at Las Palmas that diverted many airliners to Tenerife, that put the two 747s into a proximity and situation that would never have otherwise occurred, whose collision killed hundreds more people than the bomb at Las Palmas.

Sure there were a lot of differences including the matter of degree but both involved a plane taking off colliding with a plane that was taxiing. That is all I was drawing on. Pilot error or misconduct or controller error or a combination of those things will be the cause in either case. Thankfully the Japan incident wasn't two jumbos and the 100% evacuation of the plane on the ground thanks to JAL's excellent safety training saved the day.