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05-30-2019, 11:00 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/05/t...noying-man
Current Events Nathan J. Robinson takes a deep dive on Steven Pinker.
The World's Most Annoying Man.
Steve Pinker is selling Reason, Not Reason
It seems Pinker may not be the deep thinker many think he is. Like Jordan Peterson, and Sam Harris, Pinker writes a lot of questionable nonsense. This article is a goo quick look at Pinker for those who may have heard of him, but haven't really read him. Pinker is quite a figure to some, disliked by others. His dismissive attitude towards leftists, SJWs and liberals has made him something of a hero to some doctrinaire right wingers. Pinker seems to think that people who disagree with him are not rational. and may not be as rational as he loudly claims to be.
Another bad example to not be like.
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05-30-2019, 11:44 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
Sam Harris writes a lot of "questionable nonsense"? Pinker may or may not be All That, but hard to take you seriously with that hyperbolic of an intro. I'm sure you can dig out some out of context seemingly questionable quotes of Harris, but in total the guy is far-ranging, fair-minded, and extremely knowledgeable on almost any topic he takes on.
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05-30-2019, 11:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2019, 12:20 AM by Alan V.)
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-30-2019, 11:00 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Another bad example to not be like.
A quote from your linked article:
"While insisting for page upon page on the necessity of rationality, he irrationally caricatures and mocks ideas he hasn’t tried to understand. Then, when the people who believe those ideas become upset, he sees this as further proof of their emotion-driven thinking, and becomes even more convinced that he is right."
Confirmation bias is a common human problem.
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05-30-2019, 11:51 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-30-2019, 11:44 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Sam Harris writes a lot of "questionable nonsense"? Pinker may or may not be All That, but hard to take you seriously with that hyperbolic of an intro. I'm sure you can dig out some out of context seemingly questionable quotes of Harris, but in total the guy is far-ranging, fair-minded, and extremely knowledgeable on almost any topic he takes on.
Yeah, for someone who accuses Pinker of exaggeration and cartoonish representations of others' opinions, sentences like " Nobody has ever tried to look more Reasonable while being so ignorant and condescending." and "I find Steven Pinker the most annoying man in the world because he’s certainly one of the most patronizing men in the world", are rather ironic.
I'm not even sure what I think of Pinker (still reading the Violence book, but am too busy so it'll be while) but I think I need to go back to reading almost exclusively scientific articles. The petty viciousness and mudslinging on all sides in political and "intellectual" circles is getting to be too much for me.
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05-31-2019, 12:12 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2019, 12:13 AM by Dānu.)
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
I don't know whether it speaks good or ill of Pinker, but I find him an incredibly boring writer. I simply can't finish his books. I think I managed "How The Mind Works" many moons ago but was not paricularly impressed. I'd like to read some of his works such as The Blank Slate, Better Angels, and The Language Instinct just on reputation alone, but the idea of slogging through 700 pages of Pinker's writing is enough to make me want to commit Seppuku.
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05-31-2019, 12:19 AM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-31-2019, 12:12 AM)Dānu Wrote: I don't know whether it speaks good or ill of Pinker, but I find him an incredibly boring writer. I simply can't finish his books. I think I managed "How The Mind Works" many moons ago but was not paricularly impressed. I'd like to read some of his works such as The Blank Slate, Better Angels, and The Language Instinct just on reputation alone, but the idea of slogging through 700 pages of Pinker's writing is enough to make me want to commit Seppuku.
I should have made the effort as I think I have heard him in a few podcasts, but I have never picked up a book of his. If I do it will also be on reputation alone so hope it is not as bad as you say. I know he has the thesis that despite how it seems, humans in general have never been flourishing more than they are now (Better Angels?). Seems like a reasonable proposition.
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05-31-2019, 01:12 AM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
I wouldn't compare Pinker to Peterson. But it's true that Pinker, like so many other smart people, has ultracrepidarian tendencies that can trap him into a dunning-kruger effect. In other words, he can be very arrogant and arrogance is the mother of all stupidity. In his field of study, I think Pinker is very respected and respectable unlike Peterson who, even in his domain, is considered as unremarcable at beast.
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05-31-2019, 11:15 AM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
The thing that makes me wonder is, if the various critiques of Pinker I am seeing from Google are true, Pinker often makes all sorts of ignorant, reactionary cheap shots. He had to know it would be commented on. At least you would hope his editor would have reasoned with him. "You don't really want to write THAT, do you?". I wonder what the back story there is?
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05-31-2019, 05:54 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
All that I care to know about Peterson makes me think that he is village idiot spouting bullshit appealing to uneducated. Pinker however is responsible for both "Blank Slate" and "Better Angels of Our Nature". This is enough to put him leagues above clowns like Peterson.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.
Socrates.
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05-31-2019, 07:20 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-31-2019, 05:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Pinker however is responsible for both "Blank Slate" and "Better Angels of Our Nature". This is enough to put him leagues above clowns like Peterson.
Yet, both these books have been fairly seriously criticised and probably overpraised considering that some of the methodology was dubious and some instence of data analysis and presentation was fallacious.
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05-31-2019, 07:28 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-31-2019, 07:20 PM)epronovost Wrote: (05-31-2019, 05:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Pinker however is responsible for both "Blank Slate" and "Better Angels of Our Nature". This is enough to put him leagues above clowns like Peterson.
Yet, both these books have been fairly seriously criticised and probably overpraised considering that some of the methodology was dubious and some instence of data analysis and presentation was fallacious.
It may be so but (alleged?) dubious methodology and fallacious presentation are still miles above Peterson quackery and idiocy.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.
Socrates.
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05-31-2019, 07:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2019, 07:31 PM by epronovost.)
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-31-2019, 07:28 PM)Szuchow Wrote: dubious methodology and fallacious presentation are still miles above Peterson quackery and idiocy.
On that we both agree. Peterson is down to making adds for a multilevel marketing business.
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06-01-2019, 01:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2019, 04:41 PM by mordant.)
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(05-31-2019, 12:19 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I know he has the thesis that despite how it seems, humans in general have never been flourishing more than they are now (Better Angels?). Seems like a reasonable proposition.
I go back and forth on this. It is hard at the moment to "feel" the transcendence of ethics and reason over the intellectual assassins. I can see plausible scenarios where the US for example could bounce back stronger than ever, or go down a protracted dystopian rabbit hole, or anything in between. I still believe ultimately in the "better angels" but at the same time I think humanity is in a fragile, dangerous place. I am one who buys the notion that one explanation for us not having encountered (or more accurately being encountered by) other species in the universe yet is that intelligent civilizations face various "hard stops" that most don't get beyond. We may be in the midst of one of those, and the outcome is uncertain. IF we get beyond it then yes, on a time scale that's not too personally helpful or hopeful to any one individual's life, there's a rosy future out there somewhere.
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06-01-2019, 01:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2019, 01:44 PM by Phaedrus.)
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
There used to be a quote one girl posted all the time. I cannot remember how it goes precisely, and I've never found it despite all my searching, but it goes something like this:
If you're writing doesn't piss someone off, you're not doing it right.
Granted, there are exceptions. Like Trump.
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06-01-2019, 04:42 PM
Steven Pinker - Public Intellectual Or Nonsense Peddler?
(06-01-2019, 01:39 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: There used to be a quote one girl posted all the time. I cannot remember how it goes precisely, and I've never found it despite all my searching, but it goes something like this:
If you're writing doesn't piss someone off, you're not doing it right.
Granted, there are exceptions. Like Trump. Well Trump can be said to be "doing it right" WRT his writing, but with immoral and self-serving motives.
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