Mafia game #6 Night of the Witch

[Aliza]

I got home WAY too late to go into my rant I had planned, but what does e'erbody think about having a good ol' Mafia family intervention with Evie, and Joods? 

I'm thinking that Joods and Evie should avoid playing games with each other and that they should take it in turns to have first dibs at deciding whether to play or not.

So now we'll have the Tartyliza Symbiote and the Joovie Symbiote. 

Soon us symbiotes will take over the whole game! Muhahahahah! 

[Joods]

I got home WAY too late to go into my rant I had planned, but what does e'erbody think about having a good ol' Mafia family intervention with Evie, and Joods? 

I'm thinking that Joods and Evie should avoid playing games with each other and that they should take it in turns to have first dibs at deciding whether to play or not.

No worries. I won't be playing anymore. He is the second player who has hurled insults at others and I don't think any consequences would sink in so that positive changes could be made. One first has to admit that they did a wrong in order to make changes in their life. While I am not perfect, I will not be accused of saying things I didn't say. 

You all have fun with him though.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Wow I can't believe I missed all this until now.

Yes, you did... much.

Even when by my standards this is a drastic improvement and you're used to me being me?

And no, it doesn't mean motherfucker.
It means FFS (though not literally).

Well, like I said, Google translate told me that that's what it said. I was aware that the translation was probably incorrect.

Can you please not zap the fun out of the game with your incessant and repetitious blabber next time?!

Fun is subjective.

I find the fun gets zapped out of a game when I repeatedly explain myself, and explain myself quite well, and people still don't understand me.

It's not difficult... if you see that you're writing the same thing for the third time in  a day phase... maybe (and this is a maybe with 99% certainty) it's too much.

But if it's an important point and it's being repeatedly missed then just ignoring it would go against my win condition.

If it's something simple that needs explaining but other people have a listening problem then I don't see how the problem is that I'm repeating the thing that they're not grasping.

If you're a robot that need this sort of numerical clues, then there it is. To repeat once is ok... to repeat twice, thrice, ad nauseum, is not!

But then when I do repeat that much and people STILL don't understand ... what am I supposed to do? Just stop playing the game altogether?

By the end, I just didn't care about the game... I just wanted it to be over.
And I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

Yeah, I know, but it's a regular pattern in my life that people are irrational and illogical in general and I get frustrated when they get frustrated that I'm not seeing things in the same irrational and illogical way that they do.

I'm taking some time off playing this. Have fun with your next games, everyone.

I had completely missed these posts until now.

I think that I'm a better mod than player because nobody can put up with me when I play even though I'm not the problem and most people are just too emotional over a damn game.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Evie, here's a useful tip. Words have power. They are like a currency. The more you use them, the less power they have.

Not true. People just FEEL that way ... it's damn stupid and irrational though.

If I say 2+2=4 a million times it doesn't suddenly make 2+2=5. ... it doesn't matter how many times you repeat a valid point it's still a valid point.

Imagine a group of people debating something. After a while, someone who has not spoken before speaks up. Everybody will listen. The one who keeps repeating themselves over and over again gets ignored.

Yes that's what happens but that's because people are stupid and debates are therefore often 'won' through emotional appeal and superstitious bullshit like the idea that if you repeat X then X suddenly makes less sense than it did the first time even though it's still X.

If I'm explaining something I try to rephrase it but it's still seen as repetition even when I do.

And when my point is quite basic and makes a lot of sense, and when it's the correct response or answer to someone else's point or question ... I mean, really, what am I supposed to do?

And I now realize that I can be more concise and I can be less repetitive and I can improve the way I am but it's still not good enough for anybody despite the fact that I always tolerate their irrational shite.

If people do not agree with them the first time, they are not going to agree with them for the umpteenth time that they have repeated themselves.

Yes. But if it makes sense the first time then it makes sense all the other times as well ... and if people aren't listening then what the hell are you supposed to do? All you can do is try and when you fail; keep trying.

It also means that if they have anything new to say, that will likely get ignored as well.

Once again, for irrational reasons.

So if you you find yourself asking us why you have to keep repeating yourself while using all caps, as you did plenty of times during this game, then take this as a good indicator that you shouldn't be repeating yourself.

(a) When I repeat myself less it's still not good enough and I'm still told I'm being repetitive because my personality and the way I talk is repetitive in general, and my A.S.D. actually affects that as well. (b) When I am uncharacteristically nonrepetitive and concise nobody appreciates it and people just miss my points even more.

People know what you are saying and either they disagree with you or you have misunderstood what their objections are.

Either they disagree or I have misunderstood?

How about, we disagree, but they misunderstand, and they are quite clearly objectively wrong, sometimes, and just can't see it?

Why is it me, supposedly, that's necessarily misunderstood? Even though I'm the one making sense? (Hence why I keep repeating myself because if people understood the first time I wouldn't have to).

In which case go back and re-read what they have said.

LOL I have to re-read nonsensical and illogical shite but if I say something logical it doesn't have to be re-read because that's repetitive?

You certainly misunderstood what people were saying about the whole random vote thing.

No I didn't (if that were true then all their follow-up explantions give to me wouldn't all be equally nonsensical and still all fail to address the rebuttals I'd already given). I was right and people literally made no sense. The game doesn't even begin until the first vote starts so the first vote is always random by definition unless it's a scum player making the vote and that's obviously moot because at the beginning town have no idea who is scum and who isn't.

UNLESS ... scum scumslip before the first vote... but that has NEVER happened.

There you go, I repeated the same basic point again. What else am I supposed to do if you still don't get it? I didn't misunderstand anything at all. I was being told to invent a reason for a vote despite the fact that no such reason could be believed by anyone who understands how the game works, lol.

[Revenant77x]

@EvieTheAvocado  The problem isn't that people don't understand what you are saying it is you don't actually stop and think about why they are saying what they are.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Who cares why they are saying it if what they are saying is nonsensical.

I'm quite aware that I can't make sense of people's intentions ... but they're irrelevant anyway The semantic and logical meaning of the things people say should be able to stand on their own terms without being contradictory, incoherent or irrelevant to the point being made by the other person.

If I have a problem, my problem is a lot smaller than the opposition's problem, because I'm making sense and they aren't, and their problem may be redeemable, but mine maybe isn't (and, in spite of that fact, I am the one who repeatedly tries to improve because others don't like the way I am while everyone else is quite content talking nonsense as long as I don't point it out).

Apparently none of the changes I make are good enough even though I'm quite clearly fine exactly the way I am in the first place but everyone else is quite content to keep talking nonsense and telling me I'm not listening to what they want what their saying to mean even when what they're saying doesn't actually mean what they think it means.

[Revenant77x]

Who cares why they are saying it if what they are saying is nonsensical.

I'm quite aware that I can't make sense of people's intentions ... but they're irrelevant anyway The semantic and logical meaning of the things people say should be able to stand on their own terms without being contradictory, incoherent or irrelevant to the point being made by the other person.

If I have a problem, my problem is a lot smaller than the opposition's problem, because I'm making sense and they aren't, and their problem may be redeemable, but mine maybe isn't (and in spite of that I am the one who repeatedly tries to improve because others don't like the way I am while everyone else is quite content talking nonsense as long as I don't point it out).

This right here is what I am talking about.  You make false assumptions about what people are saying then refuse to listen when they explain themselves.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Who cares why they are saying it if what they are saying is nonsensical.

I'm quite aware that I can't make sense of people's intentions ... but they're irrelevant anyway The semantic and logical meaning of the things people say should be able to stand on their own terms without being contradictory, incoherent or irrelevant to the point being made by the other person.

If I have a problem, my problem is a lot smaller than the opposition's problem, because I'm making sense and they aren't, and their problem may be redeemable, but mine maybe isn't (and in spite of that I am the one who repeatedly tries to improve because others don't like the way I am while everyone else is quite content talking nonsense as long as I don't point it out).

This right here is what I am talking about.  You make false assumptions about what people are saying then refuse to listen when they explain themselves.

You mean you say that's what I'm doing but it's not actually what I'm doing.

I look at what they're actually saying semantically. I don't assume intentions. Other people do that to me and expect me to do that to them.

Look, you already made no sense from one post to the next: first you say that I ignore why people are saying things and then you say that I make assumptions about it. First I fail to make the normal human assumptions that most people do but then the next minute I apparently am the one making them. Which is it? I think you were right the first time but now you've flipped it around the other way after I responded with things that made sense that didn't exactly approve of what you said despite the fact that I did actually agree (I'm the first to admit that I'm completely hopeless at reading intentions ... which is why I don't do it. And why I DON'T make assumptions. I'd be a lot more normal and sociable and functional if I made MORE assumptions ... but I'd also be irrational and I'd have a totally different personality and wouldn't be me).

[EvieTheAvocado]

You make false assumptions about what people are saying then refuse to listen when they explain themselves.

I mean, this was just a baseless assertion as well ... all evidence indicates that the problem, if I have one, is that I don't make ENOUGH assumptions and I look at what people are saying rather than what they want to be saying and think they're saying.

But fuck it. My self-acceptance is through the roof nowadays, thank fuck, and I'm infinitely more happy than I've ever been before ... and more mentally healthy than I've ever been before.

The problem is not with me because the way I am is completely normal and functional for me. Just as others are for them. I understand that I can accept myself but others can't. That's fine. I don't have to accept them either. Some people do get me ... not many people, but quality over quantity so fuck it.

And it doesn't mean that you guys don't like me. I know you do. And I like you guys too. But, I mean, when I continue to be the way I always am and it's seen as a problem ... Mafia really brings out the social shittiness that I get thrown at me by the majority of people ... I'm really not the problem ... I'm just unusual. If most people were like me then society would see others as the problem instead. I actually say things that make a lot of sense and in spite of that I can't fit in. But I don't want to fit in. And, in fact, it's less of a case that I make a lot of sense and in spite of that I can't fit in and more of a case that I make a lot of sense and because of that I can't fit in. But, again, I don't want to fit in.

I don't see why I should have to talk the language of bullshit just because so many other people do. I can't magically give myself empathy by the power of osmosis just because people want me to. Them expecting me to do what all evidence indicates I consistently and persistently never have been able to do is just another example of them being irrational again. OF COURSE I can't do what I've NEVER been able to do. It's probably not even fucking neurologically possible for me.

And what small improvements I do make isn't good enough for anyone and they want more ... why the fuck should I change at all if nobody else bothers? I'm not the problem. And I'm tired of hearing the Argumentum ad populum whenever I point out that I'm not the problem.

[Revenant77x]

You make false assumptions about what people are saying then refuse to listen when they explain themselves.

I mean, this was just a baseless assertion as well ... all evidence indicates that the problem, if I have one, is that I don't make ENOUGH assumptions and I look at what people are saying rather than what they want to be saying and think they're saying.

But fuck it. My self-acceptance is through the roof nowadays, thank fuck, and I'm infinitely more happy than I've ever been before ... and more mentally healthy than I've ever been before.

The problem is not with me because the way I am is completely normal and functional for me. Just as others are for them. I understand that I can accept myself but others can't. That's fine. I don't have to accept them either. Some people do get me ... not many people, but quality over quantity so fuck it.

And it doesn't mean that you guys don't like me. I know you do. And I like you guys too. But, I mean, when I continue to be the way I always am and it's seen as a problem ... Mafia really brings out the social shittiness that I get thrown at me by the majority of people ... I'm really not the problem ... I'm just unusual. If most people were like me then society would see others as the problem instead. I actually say things that make a lot of sense and in spite of that I can't fit in. But I don't want to fit in. And, in fact, it's less of a case that I make a lot of sense and in spite of that I can't fit in and more of a case that I make a lot of sense and because of that I can't fit in. But, again, I don't want to fit in.

I don't see why I should have to talk the language of bullshit just because so many other people do.  I can't magically give myself empathy by the power of osmosis just because people want me to. Them expecting me to do what all evidence indicates I consistently and persistently never have been able to do is just another example of them being irrational again. OF COURSE I can't do what I've NEVER been able to do. It's probably not even fucking neurologically possible for me.

And what small improvements I do make isn't good enough for anyone and they want more ... why the fuck should I change at all if nobody else bothers? I'm not the problem. And I'm tired of hearing the Argumentum ad populum whenever I point out that I'm not the problem.

I am specifically referring to when you went on that 50 post tirade day 2 when several people asked you to explain your reason for lynching SMerch and instead of doing so you just accused them of anti-town play.  You then went on to mislynch a town player and because you never shared your information no other scum hunting was done day 2.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Who cares why they are saying it if what they are saying is nonsensical.

I'm quite aware that I can't make sense of people's intentions ... but they're irrelevant anyway The semantic and logical meaning of the things people say should be able to stand on their own terms without being contradictory, incoherent or irrelevant to the point being made by the other person.

If I have a problem, my problem is a lot smaller than the opposition's problem, because I'm making sense and they aren't, and their problem may be redeemable, but mine maybe isn't (and in spite of that I am the one who repeatedly tries to improve because others don't like the way I am while everyone else is quite content talking nonsense as long as I don't point it out).

This right here is what I am talking about.  You make false assumptions about what people are saying then refuse to listen when they explain themselves.

It's especially funny when that was demonstrably the exact opposite of what I was doing. Like you said in the previous post ... I don't listen to why people say what they say. In other words: I don't make assumptions about their intentions.

What is being said is entirely assumption free whereas why something is being said isn't and is full of assumption ... I mean, that's the whole damn point. I am not a mindreader so I don't pretend to be. Other people aren't mind readers either but they pretend to be (and they often get it right simply due to the fact that many people see things similarly and can relate to each other).

[EvieTheAvocado]

I am specifically referring to when you went on that 50 post tirade day 2 when several people asked you to explain your reason for lynching SMerch and instead of doing so you just accused them of anti-town play. 

It is anti-town to ignore a cop's guilty result and the guilty result is the reason, as was made quite clear.

You then went on to mislynch a town player and because you never shared your information no other scum hunting was done day 2.

LOL that's such bullshit. So the mod himself even suffers from hindsight bias despite being the one who made the game lol.

It's like inventing a game with a combination of luck and skill and only understanding the skill part and ignoring any 'mistakes' that happen due to a downswing. Even though you invented the game, lol. It's like making a pair of 6 sided dice and not knowing how they work, lol.

[EvieTheAvocado]

INB4 someone says "He must know! He was the mod!".

I really am talking another language ... I repeat myself because there's brick walls all around me and it's pretty much all I have to talk to. So hard to get some really basic shit through to so many people's heads and it is starting to annoy me but at least I can laugh about it because I'm very content to not put up with the bullshit I've had to deal with all my life anymore or ever again.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Here's an assumption: People just get pissed off at me pointing out errors all the time and will happily argue with me that all water is 100% dry and the sun is ice cold sooner than they would admit that I'm actually making sense.

That assumption is probably incorrect though. Much more likely that people are just stupid and/or jealous or something. There are only so many explanations for basic shit consistently being failed to be grasped, though. Objective matters are objective.

It just seems hard to believe that so many people can be THAT consistently dense ... so I am starting to think it's more emotional bullshit making people biased so that they really will happily believe that squares are circular and bachelors are married before they'll agree with me or see my point.

It starts to get especially suspicious when I keep my mouth shut and people start eventually saying the exact same things I was saying ... like, it's not that people don't agree they just don't want to agree with me.

Even what Mathilda was saying alluded to that: when she mentioned how people will ignore a point if it's repeated ... so, even if it makes sense they'll irrationally start devaluing it for emotional and irrational reasons.

This is what people are like. And it's damn silly.

EDIT: And this is why so many people are so shit at poker as well, lol.