2020 US candidates

[Minimalist]

Democratic convention pushed back to August.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/po...layed.html

[Dānu]

It would be great if the flaws in the ways things are run in the US change but I don't have much hope that it will. There are too many people that believe other Americans who are in dire straits did something to deserve it. 

Lose your job and now can't pay rent? Callous American response: "You should have saved when times were good." 
Sky-high student loans that you can't pay now?  Callous American response: "Well, why did you take out those loans in the first place? Bad planning." 
Giant medical bills and now you have to declare bankruptcy? Callous American response: "That must be your fault, somehow."
Homeless people living in tents on city streets? Callous American response: "They want to be homeless and they're mostly immoral drunks and drug addicts, anyway."

These are all nonsensical things I've heard in good economic times, often lead by politicians on the right, who aren't going away anytime soon. I even hear these things in my own liberal state, which shows how entrenched these bad attitudes are.

-Teresa

I'm considering starting a thread on this, but the question of whether weakness or other human frailty should be considered moral failings or not has come to the forefront in a big way over the past century.  My specific example was that I don't personally consider myself a very strong person, yet others who know me, seeing what I've coped with may disagree.  In particular, people at the hospital ward I was on after having my fingers amputated complimented me on how casually and equanimously I was reacting to the changes to my reality.  At the time I just attributed it to a strong tendency toward a Taoist worldview, and so didn't consider it as remarkable as they did.  And my mental illness is another dimension.  I cope because I must, more than because I can.  In the past people with mental illness were seen as deserving of their problems and described their faults in terms of moral and personal defects.  That has changed over time, thanks to a lot of consciousness-raising on the issue from the twin forks of education and experience with individuals who have a mental illness.  I'm not as familiar with the story regarding chemical dependency, but there has been a sea change there as well.  And the change from a century ago when homosexuality was regarded as a sickness to now wherein it's gaining acceptance globally is remarkable both in scope and rapidity.  So I think change does occur, the question is how quickly and what are the things driving it?  A public health crisis of this sort has the potential to change both those things significantly.  Smugly self-satisfied "fuck you, I got mine" people will be given an up-close look at a reality which they've at best tried to deny and distance themselves from in the past.  There's research which suggests we are less likely to give to people the more removed from us they are.  A friend is different from a faceless black person in Africa.  A homosexual daughter or neighbor is different from some stereotyped image of a gay boogeyman.  So I don't expect miracles, but at the same time I'm skeptical of your pessimism.

I'm told that there was something of a sea change in the mental health field in the 1990s that shifted away from a general "blame the parent" strategy for mental illness and addiction issues in children and youth (for example, the preferred treatment for autism in young adults before then was literally known as a "parentectomy" -- removing the parents from their lives as they were believed to be creating severe codependence in the child).

I assume that the attitudes toward people with mental health issues as somehow being All Their Fault, is tracking somewhat behind that. Once you remove parents as the responsible party, blame tends to fall on the individual. Then people have to figure out that fixing blame is not the path to an answer.

Mixed in with this is the big-Pharma driven notion that every mental health issue is fixed with a pill. Johan Hari and other activists and authors are slowly dismantling this notion that all depression is totally fixed with the right SSRI prescription. But it's early days there. 

That things are relatively more enlightened than that now vs 20 years ago doesn't mean that the thinking and institutions around these issues aren't still medieval in practical terms. And American society is in ways uniquely favorable to the notion that people who don't have Problems get to ignore and judge and disparage those who do, and regard them as leeches and thieves. In my experience and observation, people who are doing reasonably well like to feel that they are safe and protected in that well-doing by some sort of innate virtue they possess, and that people who aren't functioning as well, must lack those virtues.

This is just one of many reasons why society needs to be moved to a more egalitarian mindset that protects and supports the most vulnerable rather than punishing them until morale improves -- whether economically or otherwise. US society does not like to factor in safety nets and protections; the idea seems to be that they shouldn't be needed at all. Which is of course delusional. But it is the attitude just the same.

I don't think we need to be pessimistic as a result, and don't think Therese necessarily is pessimistic ... maybe just making an observation. As Sanders likes to say, "despair is not an option" ... one just keeps pushing for needed change and changing minds one at a time. It is an arduous long game we have to play. We don't help ourselves by either over or under estimating that task.

On the other hand, while it's a long game, it can be significantly shortened if there's a critical mass of public sentiment and political will and if people quit triangulating about whether they think enough others can be brought on board, before they start advocating for real change. Quit looking to the regressive elements in society, effectively, for permission to improve things.

Could you provide some illustrations of what you mean when you say that thinking and institutional responses on these issues are still medieval in practical terms? While there are certainly going to be practical obstacles, particularly in democracies, as well as a spread from conservative to liberal amounts of change and thinking, I think any figurative Overton window on these issues has moved significantly over the past century. So I don't know what it is that you are referring to here.

[mordant]

Could you provide some illustrations of what you mean when you say that thinking and institutional responses on these issues are still medieval in practical terms?  While there are certainly going to be practical obstacles,  particularly in democracies, as well as a spread from conservative to liberal amounts of change and thinking, I think any figurative Overton window on these issues has moved significantly over the past century.  So I don't know what it is that you are referring to here.

There is still a great deal of stigma attached to having mental health problems. In general private insurance still tends to not cover mental health care as well as other types of health issues.

Then there is the influence of big pharma and the tendency to try to medicate all mental health problems away rather than get at root causes of things like depression. It is not entirely, or even mostly, for most people, a simple "chemical imbalance" for which Magic Pills exist. For more on this, read most anything by Johann Hari on the topic. He's probably the best at arguing that particular case.

My son had a diagnosed personality disorder which assessment we had to pay for out of pocket to a private provider. But when it came to getting him the services and aid that he needed to function and progress and manage his situation, he ended up getting funneled into the county mental health system in our area, where he had a doctor who was hostile to involving me as a parent / immediate family member and support person, and who simply wanted to medicate him until he conformed. When he did not respond, they escalated him to an older drug with a very narrow therapeutic window and then did not closely manage it. He overdosed -- whether entirely by accident or, more likely, part of some personal experimentation on this part, I'll never know -- and dropped dead at work of sudden cardiac arrest.

So yeah I tend to see the mental health system as ham fisted, tone deaf and, sure, medieval. I have similar stories to tell about my son's biological mother, my first wife. The system seems structured to be over simplified for the convenience and economy of the providers, who mostly collect money without having any accountability for results. After our divorce, they turned my wife into a Thorazine zombie and put her to work cleaning offices in a state-run for-profit enterprise. I couldn't have spared her that even if I'd had the wherewithal at the time, since near as I can tell that's one of the better outcomes one can expect with her particular constellation of symptoms.

If that's not a crude and inhumane state of affairs, I don't know what is.

[Dom]

We need Yang and his money distribution just about now. Sending money to each household is a lot easier, faster and cheaper than the idiocy that they are trying to put in practice now, where it may be a couple of months before peeps get the money they need to get them through this. I should have joined the Yang gang. The man knows math and is down to earth and practical. @jerry mcmasters was right about that!

[Thumpalumpacus]

We need yang and his money distribution just about now. Sending money to each household is a lot easier, faster and cheaper than the idiocy that they are trying to put in practice now, where it may be a couple of months before peeps get the money they need to get them through this. I should have joined the Yang gang. The man knows math and is down to earth and practical. @jerry mcmasters was right about that!

Jesus please us, @jerry mcmasters got two "you're right"s in one day!

[Deesse23]

[jerry mcmasters]

It's after midnight here, I've just turned back into a pumpkin.

Dom I've been thinking lately Yang shouldn't have dropped out. I think he felt bad about continuing to request money when he thought there was no legit path to victory which just shows he's new to politics, probably few other politicians would have that kind of consideration. But if he had just hung around, don't even have to spend money, just stay in even with no delegates...who knows, it would be unlikely and strange, but possible. Imagine Biden dying or deteriorating worse than he is, the DNC still finding Bernie unacceptable, Yang stepping into the gap.

[SYZ]

I'm getting a strong impression that nearly 50% of people eligible to vote in the US don't really care which party is in power, or who their president is.  They can't even get out of bed for one single day every four years.

It is not quite that simple.

1) In general, employers are not obliged to let workers vote... In Australia, employers by law must make time for employee voting.

2) There's a tendency in many states to close or understaff or restrict hours of polling places... Not in Australia, they'd be federal offences under the Electoral Act.

3) For example, to vote in New York's closed presidential primary, you must declare your party, but you must do it six months before the primary election day... What the actual fuck?    

4) It was not rare for people to arrive at the polling place on election day to find that their declared party had mysteriously disappeared... Electoral tampering is a criminal offence here.

[Aegon]

It's after midnight here, I've just turned back into a pumpkin.

Dom I've been thinking lately Yang shouldn't have dropped out.  I think he felt bad about continuing to request money when he thought there was no legit path to victory which just shows he's new to politics, probably few other politicians would have that kind of consideration.  But if he had just hung around, don't even have to spend money, just stay in even with no delegates...who knows, it would be unlikely and strange, but possible.  Imagine Biden dying or deteriorating worse than he is, the DNC still finding Bernie unacceptable, Yang stepping into the gap.

Yang's had some negative press this week.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/andrew-yang-fa...d=69961672

Can't say I disagree with the critics, despite being a Yang fan. Minorities shouldn't need to put on a song and dance for white Americans not to harass and attack them.